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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
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-   -   Insurance companies forced to cover track day damages? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65277)

nocwage 05-07-2014 06:05 PM
Insurance companies forced to cover track day damages?
 
So I was looking at buying Track Day insurance and came across a porsche club thread which pointed out that the Ontario Court of Appeals actually ruled IN FAVOUR of a driver who crashed their car at a HPDE and was denied coverage by their insurer, Aviva.

Link to the ruling:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc...11onca313.html

Quote:
There was more than ample evidence for the application judge’s conclusion that the respondent was not engaged in a “race” or “speed test”, but in “exercising his driving skills in an environment, which was, by design and intended purpose, such as to challenge his skills and the performance attributes of his vehicle.” The purpose and objectives set out in the manual clearly support the application judge’s conclusion.
The "speed test" and "race" is part of the Ontario Automobile Policy Owner's Policy in which it states :

1.4.6 You agree not to use or allow anyone to use the automobile in a race or speed test or for any illegal trade or transportation.

So since a track day is not 'timed' it is not a speed test or a race.

Thoughts?

Muskokan 05-07-2014 06:13 PM
I think id like to see a few other people crash without insurance first, go try it.

Probably a fluke, and if he had to take insurance companies to court, wonder how much that cost him.

7thgear 05-07-2014 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocwage (Post 1721995)
So I was looking at buying Track Day insurance and came across a porsche club thread which pointed out that the Ontario Court of Appeals actually ruled IN FAVOUR of a driver who crashed their car at a HPDE and was denied coverage by their insurer, Aviva.

Link to the ruling:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc...11onca313.html



The "speed test" and "race" is part of the Ontario Automobile Policy Owner's Policy in which it states :

1.4.6 You agree not to use or allow anyone to use the automobile in a race or speed test or for any illegal trade or transportation.

So since a track day is not 'timed' it is not a speed test or a race.

Thoughts?

He won the battle, but probably lost the war. I'd like to know if this person was able to get insurance at reasonable rates from regular insurers :( :(

evomike 05-07-2014 06:16 PM
it matters if its a timed event thats why people get covered during hpde events in the ones i have seen, but im sure every insurance is different id just trailer it home and say i crashed.

7thgear 05-07-2014 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evomike (Post 1722024)
it matters if its a timed event thats why people get covered during hpde events in the ones i have seen, but im sure every insurance is different id just trailer it home and say i crashed.
that's fraud

and good luck getting a police report on a mangled car in your garage :party0030:

nocwage 05-07-2014 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1722022)
He won the battle, but probably lost the war. I'd like to know if this person was able to get insurance at reasonable rates from regular insurers :( :(
I don't think they could actually use that as grounds to not sell you insurance.
It depends what the details on how they can consider you "high risk".
Not paying insurance, crashing a lot, convictions can make you high risk, but arguing with your insurance company can't.

FR-S Guy 05-07-2014 07:48 PM
I had heard about this case before but half assumed insurance companies would have covered that hole by now.

That being said, there was an engineer at my employer who was one of the earlier adopters and crashed his FR-S at Cayuga a month into ownership. Rumour has it he got his insurance to pay for it... :iono:

nocwage 05-07-2014 09:57 PM
I'm going to email FSCO and find out, my understanding is that all insurance offerings basically have to match the O.A.P and they can't change it, so since the O.A.P doesn't exclude HPDE then they can't.

wparsons 05-07-2014 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocwage (Post 1722223)
I don't think they could actually use that as grounds to not sell you insurance.
It depends what the details on how they can consider you "high risk".
Not paying insurance, crashing a lot, convictions can make you high risk, but arguing with your insurance company can't.
Regular companies don't have to sell you insurance... they can deny you for whatever reason they want, and if you're flagged like this you'll likely be stuck with Facility insurance, which is about 5 times what normal insurance costs.

automatic 05-08-2014 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wparsons (Post 1722613)
Regular companies don't have to sell you insurance... they can deny you for whatever reason they want, and if you're flagged like this you'll likely be stuck with Facility insurance, which is about 5 times what normal insurance costs.
Regular insurance companies (at least in Ontario) cannot arbitrarily come up with reasons to deny you insurance, or deny you for whatever reason they want. They can only deny you insurance if you fall into the denial rules approved by FSCO.

evomike 05-08-2014 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1722037)
that's fraud

and good luck getting a police report on a mangled car in your garage :party0030:
you don't need a police report for an insurance claim

7thgear 05-08-2014 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evomike (Post 1723198)
you don't need a police report for an insurance claim
so they're just going to take your word for it?

granted i don't know much about the insurance process, but given the recent crackdowns on fraud i doubt something like this would work for anything other than a fender bender.

if you roll your car i think questions will be asked.

evomike 05-08-2014 09:38 AM
yes they take your word for it unless it seems super suspicious, but if you are saying i crashed into an object and towed the car home myself there isn't much questions. You pay your deductible and get your car fixed, i am an auto claims adjuster and can tell you you really would not have much trouble doing this.

7thgear 05-08-2014 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evomike (Post 1723214)
i am an auto claims adjuster
in Canada?


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