Since when did we get HP crazy……
 

When and why did so many folks start believing that a “sports car” had to have a lot of POWER!

It sure as heck didn’t start that way.


Car Year HP Weight (lbs) lbs/HP

MGB 1970 92 2,220 24
TR-6 1970 104 2,490 24
240-Z 1970 151 2,300 15
Fiat 124 1970 105 2,100 20
Porsche 911-T 1970 123 2,250 18
Miata 1990 116 2,116 18
Corvette 1953 150 2,850 19
FR-S 2013 200 2,758 14


Comments..??

(sorry it's hard to read .... I can't get the "chart" to cooperate .....:cry:)



humfrz

We got HP crazy when safety standards made vehicle weight skyrocket.

Because people have the misconception that all sports cars must be over 300hp to be a true sports car when all the other factors are over looked, like handling. I have friends who drive high powered vehicles and none compare to the engagement, handling and sheer driving pleasure of the 86.

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Cafe racers.

Gotta have those high hp figures on hand when you quote from the brochure.

Lol numbers are tempting but 200 feels great IMO.

forget the hp the car needs a tad more torque or at least until I get rid of the torque dip then it will feel even more awesomeness

I think the lines became blurred between production cars trying to mimic race machines of the same make. "Race on Sunday, win on Monday! I've recently learned the true essence of a sports car this this week! (youtube the 240Z Documentary)

Because boasting about numerical values makes manufacturers look better than their competition. Payload, passenger/trunk space, tow capacity, horsepower, torque, mpg, etc. It all looks good on the brochure when a comparison chart of car A has more checks than car B.

very true indeed
whenever I look at car manufacturers website for any car in general its always a pros and cons comparison between cars in specific class like mpg or utility space etc etc

but for me I dont care about most of those things at least for the given car I want I mean I bought a sports car for fun its still just a unnecessary luxury item compared to a fuel sipping car thats economical in such but I dont see why people want everything in a car like if the frs had no trunk it wouldnt bother me cuz I mean its a sports car for fun driving if I wanted space get a sedan or suv imo

I dont think it's comparable numbers I reckon is ego. Like comparing **** sizes. If the car feels right for you then who cares about numbers.

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Same as squarefootage for homes (hp), neighborhood (brand), year built etc. we all want more and best of everything. what happened to the days where all siblings shared rooms? One telephone per house? One TV? we live in a attainable luxurious bountiful illusion era, more HP is just a result from advanced efficiency and technology.

Yup. Fixation with ever growing HP is a problem. Damn Pokemon TCG is ruined because of it.

But really, its true. Its one of the biggest complaint i had about the subaru community. This one is a bit better, but that was mostly because the early adopters knew what we were getting mostly. Now its hyped to the public and its getting more noticeable.

Why are people always upgrading their smartphones?
Why are people always upgrading their homes?
Why are people always upgrading their shoes?
Why are people always upgrading their clothes?
Why are people always upgrading their jobs?
Why are people always upgrading everything?
..because they can.
The question is not really about HP.

Because I want to beat my competitors at autox. I don't need to achieve the same HP numbers as them due to the amazing chassis design, but my average speed over the course has to be higher than theirs to win. YMMMV.

This all started pretty recently. The last decade or two, cars had a steady increase in power and nothing too drastic. Take the mustang GT for example: 1994 had around 210, 1999 had around 260 and 2010 had 310. IMO, the 2010 Camaro was the catalyst. Chevy introduces a new sports coupe with a base model having 300+ HP and the SS with 400+. All the other automakers seem to have followed suit afterwards. We started seeing 348 HP Genesis coupes, 414 HP Mustangs, 400+ HP Chargers/Challengers, etc... From 1994 to 2012 (18 years) the Mustang GT saw a 200 HP increase. That's insane.

It's for bragging rights.. hmph.

Why you bringin up old shit? :lol:

Honestly from 0-50kmh (not sure in miles) on day to day driving, I find it adequate enough. Only sometimes when I'm on 60km wanting to go 80km I have to floor the pedal a bit (auto transmission). Is that usually when we experience the torque dip?

At some point you'll move to B stock, though. From what I've read, the twins are quite competent C stock cars. My two times through an autox course had the tail wagging, so I need a driver mod before more power. :)

Hey old man... You're living in the past !
It's all about marketing and blasting people with horsepower numbers to sell cars.. and cars are heavier these days cause of the safety crap and other non essential comfort crapola..
This car is fast enough ... Those who realize that are the ones who are enjoying it the most as it is... Like me! :w00t:

This is a modern Japanese tuner car. Of course, power matters.... well, power-to-weight, to be more specific. This is following in the footsteps of the Silvia S15, RX7, S2000, etc., all of which had better power to weight... That + the fact that we know how much better the 86 could be, due to having previously driven these other cars are why it matters so much...

Technology moves on and we expect improvement... had this car hit its target production weight of 2500 pounds, it would have been much more interesting...

Well, BadMoon, ..... cause I'm old .... and my long term memory is much better that my short term memory ...... now, what were we talking about ..... ??


humfrz

Because people always keep wanting more and more.

Because straight line speed is also apart of the balanced sports car formula.

I think people get confused with the difference between a sports cars and a "sporty car". A sports car makes you want to drive it for no apparent reason. For example, when I drive my IS300 I feel that it's a pretty sporty car and has some pep to it. When I drive my FR-S I have to fight the urge to dive into every corner and floor it when I hit the apex. Thus making me look like a complete ass when driving it lol.

Since you are old then I will provide you with the Ghetto translation of my joking post:

:thumbup:

All those listed cars are older and aren't fair comparisons. I enjoy revving my car out to 7k for the feel of it but I won't lie and say I wouldn't love some more low-end torque.

Cars get more powerful as time goes on. That should be the trend. The FRS/BRZ have excellent driving characteristics, I won't argue with that though. I may end up adding FI later on though, just can't get over running 15 sec in the 1/4 lol

I think our obsession with horsepower has more to do with the general public's lack of sophistication when it comes to driving and their elementary views of racing.

America developed a love affair with pony car's as race cars because it catered to the most neandrathal form of "racing". Me caveman ... me step on gas... me go fast straight... me win race.

These views are further advanced by movies featuring drag racing as a way to get the girl, the money, or the respect (cuz to some people that's more important lol). They are also reflected in our most popular form of motorsport, NasCar, where the only reason you make any turns at all is just so you can get back to the next straight.

Couple the ignorance of Joe Average with the overwhelming majority of self described "car enthusaists" love for magazine reading, bench racing, and spec quoting, and you end up with pony car's ruling the roost and sports cars needing to match their horsepower figures in order to be considered "fast".

Not about HP (necessarily)

• Get rid of torque dip
• Have enough power to out accelerate a mini-van and/or camry
• Have enough power to compete at track against similar priced cars that are >600lbs heavier
• Have enough power to highway pass without redlining motor

It might sound strange, but I don't mind the lack of torque and high redline. It gives me an excuse to stretch out the engine on my daily commute, even if just to pass.

I had been driving a 987.2 Boxster S for a few days, and while the engine is quite good, if you wind out a few gears, you'll quickly be at license revocation speeds. Sad because the engine sounds incredible in the higher revs, but you'll rarely hear it in normal driving.

To me, the bigger issue with the FR-S is the torque dip. I'm not a big fan of that non-linear power delivery. Almost feels like VTEC kicking in around 4500 rpm as you rise out of the torque dip. Not much happening from 3200-4500 rpm. Interestingly, you can feel a torque surge with the Boxster S engine as well. It's just not as pronounced with more torque overall (3.4 L).

Thankfully there are UEL headers that will eliminate the torque dip on our cars.

Because 90% of people associate modern sports car with speed. All your average Joe cares about is fast acceleration from point A to B on a straight away. Why would anyone buy a new Miata if your 1990 one is just as good in performance wise?

Especially since they still look the same.

Probably because few people know what a sports car is and the ones who complain about the HP in the 86 should probably be driving a muscle car.

I don't think thats really fair. Its not that black and white. If I complain about torque dip or lack of power then I don't deserve to drive my FRS? Thats asinine.


I can still love this car and still thirst for more power.

Are sports cars not supposed to go fast, then?

Minivans and camrys are the new sports cars :bonk:

I still feel that they should offer a higher HP version 220-230 just to shut everyone up but it is not going to happen until a few more years when sales start to really decline.

since engine efficiency went up.

its acceptable to have a very similar mpg as our cars, yet have more POWA!

That's actually far more recent than the real start of the HP wars. I'd put the start to be ~1990. In '89 the RB engined Skyline GTRs came out along with the Z32 300ZX twin turbo. '91 saw the introduction of the FD RX-7 turbo. And while officially they all made 276hp, I don't think you'll find anyone in the know that doesn't quote that number without either including air-quotes, or a nudge and a wink. That was really the start of the modern HP wars, especially since (unlike the earlier HP was in the states in the 60s/70s) all those cars were turbocharged, which made them a good bit easier for the average joe on the street to increase the power.


Plus, the reality is that modern engineering and technology makes it FAR easier to get high HP numbers out of engines of a given size, especially if they've got help on the breathing end.

Read

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63503