Josh's Innovate intercooled 70mm pulleyed 92oct results
 

The numbers aren't impressive but not horrible. I've hit the wall on this kit and the only thing I can do running 92oct gas is to get a different kit, run meth injection, or run e85 (or both). I'd prefer to stay on the normal gas for convenience.

The kit can only run on the stock MAP sensor as any other sensor like the 3bar with freak out the ECU at the top end for an unknown reason. There's no post blower temp reading.

I'd say this kit is great for someone that wants about what you see in HP/TQ and doesn't want to bother getting supporting mods like exhaust, intake, a clutch, injectors, or fuel pump, and an OEM look, or just that nice supercharger whine.

The two lines are 75mm stock pulley, not intercooled, 92oct gas on BRZedit tune @Drift-Office Bob correct me if I'm wrong). The second is 70mm pulley, intercooled, 92oct gas on EcuTek.

Big props to Bob at Drift Office @Drift-Office and Mike at Moto East @moto-mike for figuring out the difficulties with this kit and making my car shine with what it has. You've earned a loyal customer with your superb customer service and quality work.

Attachment 70787

Nice, you made a few more horses than I did.

I added this dyno sheet to the Innovate list.

This probably belongs in your build topic, not in its own topic, though.

It's in my build thread too. I just though I'd put it here since I doubt people look at my build thread very often.

Looks like a nice power curve. Did Bob say why he likes the EcuTec over the BRZedit as far as a tune?

Good numbers!

Both of them were with 92 Octane, ECUTek. The first one was our calibration pre-intercooler install. The second was a custom calibration from @moto-mike, which I strongly recommend all who have the Innovate setup to at least get a calibration from. :)

I couldn't figure out why the setup was wigging out after the IC was installed and only after conferring with Mike @ Moto-East was it then I was told that it was an issue everyone was seeing (it's in the Innovate owner's thread) and that the stock MAP sensor was needed to fix this.

I had previously spent over 2 weeks trying to figure it out up to that point, so I have no wish to address this setup, ever again. :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

It's better tuning software and gives them better and more options for making the car run great.

This is not 100% true. Take a world class tuner for example: If he can properly tune a car for peak power and drivability on EcuTek, then there is no technical reason why he can't do the same on brzedit. True, EcuTek has some features (we'll call them value-adds) that brzedit doesn't, but in my experience with software it will only be a matter of time when that will no longer be the case. It's not the tool that nets a great tune.. It's the tuner. It's akin to an IT engineer arguing about whether VBscript, PowerShell or Perl is best. They are equally good scripting languages. They are all powerful in the right hands.

I was just repeating what 3 other tuners have told me. They think EcuTek is better for what they are doing. I'm sure they could get a similar or the same quality tune out of BRZedit. Apple vs orange. They both are food and give you nutrition, they just get there a little differently even though they are both fruit. :cheers:

Josh's Innovate intercooled 70mm pulleyed 92oct results
 

Yeah man.. Not frustrated by you, but rather by all of the differing opinions, stances, recommendations, etc. I feel like it's almost best to take matters into your own hands. It's just insane how the 86 community is so burdened by tuning. On my old f-body it was never this dramatic. Never this intense. I drove that car 75k miles and only tuned it once. Made almost 400 at the wheels. Never a CEL, never a problem. All of this e-tuning stuff is utter crap!

So your issues was with a MAP sensor and not the kit? K just making sure. :cheers:

Yes, aftermarket map sensors don't work with this kit intercooled. The tune from the previous company months ago never felt right driving it. The new tune is much better. I like the EcuTek goodies a little more as well. Easier to manage with the cruise control stick.

I know what you mean. I've felt some of your pain on my end as well. I hate wasting money and that's what's happened. I guess I shouldn't complain too much since I've wasted far more money on dates that went no where. ;)

That good man! Yea the last tune PRE put on our cars was crap compared to whats on them now. :cheers: I'll say the name for you. lol.

For your clarification : (and not to start a pissing match.)

I think what everyone is missing here is that the design of the kit, not the SC unit is what's severely lacking. Everything else seems to be a bit of an afterthought - sensory location or lack thereof, turbulent channels creating issues with otherwise acceptable MAP sensor used on every OTHER FI platform except this one, inherent heat issues, restrictive intercooler...

I mean who uses a limited OEM MAP sensor that reads up to 5.3 PSI when running >10PSI and only to make 20 WHP / TQ more? The added boost seems like it's there to push more air in to compensate for both the restriction the IC makes and some of the pressure drop from the IC core?

Get E85. Yeah, quick solution and you'll make a bunch more power. Get the cooling properties of E85 to 'fix' the heat issues. Pay more money for pumps, injectors, tuning and maintenance.

By the time you add the price of the kit with the intercooler, you'd be better off with JR or KW SC kits that would still out perform the Innovate (sans the bottom end where the twin screw setup shines. )

That's just a poorly priced, poorly rushed out product IMHO.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

No worries Bob. I always point my piss at the toilet. :)
Nonetheless, it saddens me that you feel so strongly against what I consider to be a great kit for this platform. I still respect you though.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e8/e8eb...dd1f893966.jpg

I <3 u bob :cheers:

I'm curious as to the gas mileage you guys are getting on the Innovate...?

I just avg'd 29.8 (going off the digital thingie) going from troutdale-seaside avging 65mph but varied from 25-100. Went 270 miles on 3/4 tank.

I haven't paid too much attention but I think maybe 1 mpg or so less.

If I drive like a sissy, I can squeeze 30+ mpg out of her

Do you guys like the innovate kit? I've been wanting to get one but I haven't been able to convince the wife. Its a hard sell. :P

Josh's Innovate intercooled 70mm pulleyed 92oct results
 

Yes, it's a great kit with a lot of future potential. You can test drive my car (it's modified significantly beyond the base kit though) if you ever make it down to a meet in Portland.

I like it my wife hates it :)

Why does she hate it?

Since just for the base kit we have spent about 5 grand with all the issues.

I've spend too much on mine too and I bought it used! ;(

Kicking myself in the ass for selling the Perrin 3in intake now... Since I need a 3in intake to run E85 and 70mm pulley on non intercooled...... dammit.... LOL.

Just buy another one at the Perrin meet. ;)

:laughabove:

Sorry I missed this earlier.

You're assuming that BRZEdit works as well as ECUTEK, and that clearly, isn't the case here. IF what you say were true, there would be a mass migration over to the BRZEdit camp long since before now.

I'll be honest - I personally have no real love for ECUTek, but until something better comes along, it has been the ONLY credible choice available IMHO. Features aside, it's come an even longer ways given the same time frame as BRZEdit.

My 2 cents.


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Josh's Innovate intercooled 70mm pulleyed 92oct results
 

Really?

You are assuming that I'm assuming. I've owned/own both tools. I've used both tools from an end-user perspective and I don't see the value of ECUTek over BRZEdit. In fact, I've purchased FOUR tunes from ECUTek authorized "master" tuners (whatever that infers..) and none of them ran right (and spent well into the thousands of dollars in the process). If ECUTek is represented by "master" tuners who are supposed to make you feel better about the quality of their tunes, then certainly the model is flawed. I'm on BRZEdit now and my car runs better now than it ever did on ECUTek. It's tuned by a local BRZEdit "master" tuner.. :rolleyes:

I remember the first time I flashed a pump/e85 tune using ECUTek and map switching via the cruise stalk. The first time I started it up, the motor banged and popped like crazy (yes, pump was on map 1 and there was gasoline (92) in the tank). I seriously thought it was going to self-detonate. Well that lasted several seconds..
After letting it reach operating temp and driving around, the next thing I notice is the really bad idle hunt, going from 600 rpm up to 1200 rpm over and over again. A local owner noticed it too and asked me what was wrong. When I called the ECUTek authorized "master" tuner, he told me that it was a bug in the ECUTek map switching implementation and that I should live with it. I have so many of these stories between the data logging back-n-forth nonsense, the terrible customer service, ECUTek's "washing of the hands" from authorized tuners, the stupid map switching feature defaulting to map 1 on every start (talk about a liability for dual fuel folks!!), flex fuel unicorns, etc.. I feel sick, literally sick.

In my industry, if I treated customers the way that most aftermarket automotive does I would have been out of a job LONG ago.

If I knew beforehand that the experiences were going to be like this I would have kept my money in my pocket and left the car stock. That is the truth.

No offense to you Bob, but we clearly have differences of opinion and it isn't going to change.

None taken, and I'm not here to change yours, while highlighting mine. :)

Cheers,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Did you guys get the "Complete" or "Tuner" version of this? and what kind of issues have you had? and do you think intercooled is worth the extra $1000ish plus whatever extra you had to do to get it all installed.

Just trying to figure things out before I spend too much money on the wrong thing :)

If I was paying full price I would get the AVO turbo kit. Since I got the innovate used, or if you can get one used for cheap, I'd say go with it. It has a poorly designed manifold, intercooler, MAP placement, and no post blower temp sensor. I'm happy with it however, but like I said, I wouldn't pay retail for it. Intercooler isn't really necessary if you only drive it on the street. If you ever want to push it I'd get the intercooler to stay safe, but the intercooler restricts the air so a smaller pulley is needed to maintain power, 2nd but, you don't know how hot it's getting post blower with or without the intercooler, so who knows! If someone can solve the post blower temp being non-existent and the intercooler restriction, then I'd say go for it. I'm sure someone will come up with better thought out parts. Out of all the 'kits' I've seen, the Kraftwerks is the best supercharger kit, and the Avo is the best turbo. Some homemade kits will be better, specifically one that uses a Borg Warner turbo, but they cost more, have less research typically, and harder to support. The biggest thing is having a tuner that can tune the car to the best of the cars ability. Find someone willing to put in lots of time fine tuning your car to run it's best and you'll be happy regardless of which kit you go with or even if you stay all natural.