PMU HC+800 - Comments Please
 

I'd appreciate learning people's experience with HC+800 as a viable mix street / track pad, with your experiences both on track and on the street. Please feel free to be a specific as you'd like: bite, modulation, fade, longevity, dusting, rotor wear, cold performance, noise . . . you get the idea.


I don't mind full on track pads and swapping back to a street pad, or leaving the track pads in. But, there seems to be some good experiences with this pad as a blended approach. So, I'd like to know real world experience.


Thanks.

Sprint,

I had the HC+ 800s on my car (fronts only) from June 2013 to December 2013. I did two track days, one at Road Atlanta and one at Talladega Gran Prix. Just for reference, I was on the stock Michelin tires.

Track Performance - The pads exhibited no considerable fade after (6) 20 min sessions at TDGP and (2) 20 min sessions at Road Atlanta. I would consider myself a novice plus driver. The pads also handled about 4 autocross days with no issues.

Daily Driving - I bedded the pads in at the first track day. Noise wise, the pads at first had no noise while daily driving, but after about a month or so the pads began making a 'hissing' noise under light load as compared to the traditional 'squealing' you get from track pads. I would consider it acceptable though as I daily drive my car here in the Southeast year round with temps from 8 degrees two weeks ago to the typical 90 degrees in the summer.

Pad Wear - I had the pads on about 6 months and the pads still have about +1/2 pad life left.

Dust - Significant dust, I would recommend cleaning the wheels every 2-3 weeks to keep them clean.

Recommendation - I would definitely recommend the pads for a novice to intermediate driver that tracks/autocrosses/daily's their car. However, I have a feeling with better tires (something along the lines of Dunlop Z2 / BFG Rivals the pads would potentially fade much quicker.

Hope this helps.

Nate

Thanks Nate.


Road Atlanta on Primacy's. That must have been a hoot!

I just received a set of these pads a few days ago. Plan on putting them on soon, can't wait.

Track Performance - I have used them for 2 track days and MSR Houston. So far I like them. I didn't like the bias with them in the front and rear so I put the stock pads in the back again. Didn't have any fad issues during 20 minute sessions. About 7 laps with 3 hard 110-115 to 50 mph braking spots per lap.

Daily Driving - When I first installed them they made a good bit of noise. I went out and tried to bed them but it was 30* outside and I didn't have a good spot near my house. After the first track session they were fully bedded and the noise is gone. They are easy to drive on it town.

Pad Wear -They have about 160 track miles and 500 street miles and they are holding up well so far.

Dust - Not going to lie, its pretty bad. I washed my wheels and drove 80 miles back home on the interstate, got home and I rubbed my finger on one of the wheels and it was already pretty thick.

Recommendation - For the price, they are good for what you get. For a autox/lite track pad I think they are great. I am glad I don't daily the car as the dust is pretty bad. With having kept the stock pad in the back I think I am going to go to Carbotech's next; XP12 front XP10 rears.

Subie:

Are you planning to leave the Carbotechs in as full time pad? I was set try out my first set of Carbotechs on a different car and had pads in hand, but ended up changing the entire brake system. I've been running PFC 01s for years and love the pad, and have been debating sticking with PFC on the new system or trying Carbotech. Their pads are consistently praised.

Maybe it's finally time to load up a set of Carbotechs . . .

Last time I checked with them (about a month or two ago), PFC does not have a pad for our car and has no plans or interest in releasing one for us...

Probably, the car stays in the garage a lot now. If they don't modulate and grip well for autocross use I will keep them around with my spare rotor set for track days and use a less aggressive pad for autox duty.

I can't recall if I looked into PFC for the Twins, but I would suspect that if numbers and demand continues to build they will produce a pad. Hopefully. Folks who switch to a BBK can certainly find PFC pads.

Don't count on it; here is the response I received from PFC in December after bugging them to make a pad for us:


PFC:

Scott,
We are not making a pad at this time for the BRZ or the FRS which utilize the same components.



ME:

Thanks for the reply. Any specific reason why not, or are you planning
on developing a pad for the FRS/BRZ? There is a large market for track
pads for this platform, and the presence of this car at track and
autocross events is continuing to grow.



PFC:

Scott,

I wish there was rhyme and reason to a lot of things in this world but that's one I cant answer haha. We don't cater to that market very well with all of the different imports that are emerging every day it seems. We have two sides to our company, Motorsports and Aftermarket. I'm sure we will develop an aftermarket pad for them but not sure how quickly a race will evolve. We don't see them very often in the Motorsports venues we put most of our manpower and R&D into like IMSA, World Challenge, NASCAR, IndyCar, V8 Supercar etc. Not that I wouldn't like to help that market out.. it's simply manpower, time and resources.

If they utilized the same Brembo package that the Sti's run we would be in business but for whatever reason they hubs and wheel ends are different.

Let's stay optimistic . . . time will tell. Assuming the Twins continue as the very popular platform they've started to be, in a few years PFC will see the numbers. But, in the meantime there are many other viable options. I for one would love to try the PFC 11 compound on my BRZ. In the meantime, I'll work with it on an M3.

Speaking of those other choices . . . the HC+800 only seems disappointing in the "dust" category. Fair statement? I gather from those who have chimed in that it's a good beginner to intermediate compromise compound, while not offering perfection everywhere, provides good overall mixed-use performance. Again, fair statement?

It does have an attractive price point.

It's at a very attractive price point, but high-intermediate/advanced drivers will want a more aggressive pad.

If you're just starting out, you can't go wrong. Proper bedding will prevent any obnoxious noises. Some customers have reported difficulty in bedding the pads, as these pads can handle race pad levels of heat.

Let us know when you're ready to take a set @sprintamx. You won't be disappointed. If you're a bit more experienced, I'd recommend you try Club Racers or 999, or Carbotech XP10/XP12. If you want alternatives, we also have Hawks, Winmax, Carbon Lorraine, Ferodo, and Endless, but CT and PMU remain the most popular choices for a reason.

Mike:


I have a good bit of time on track, but I don't know how often I'll get the BRZ on track. My thought about the HC+800 was a pad for the first time with the car on the track, driving to and from, etc.


Typically I trailer my dedicated track car, but I'll drive the BRZ and keep it as a daily driver. Having said that, I have no real problem daily driving a race compound. I've been wanting to try a Carbotech compound. With proper bedding those might work well enough on the street also. How's the dust under non track use?


Thanks.

Dust will be bad, period, but PMU and CT dust is non-corrosive. If you don't let it bake on, it won't stick to the wheel.

With your experience, I'd recommend you start with the XP12 front/rear. I daily drive on race pads; tons of locals can verify that my pads make no noise (properly bedded).

PM me to place an order.

Here's my review after 6 weeks of mixed street and autocross use.

Installation: I installed the pads without any antisqueak shims or grease on my existing factory rotors. I drove around with them for about a week to scrape off any old pad material and to wear the pad into the rotor surface a bit. As expected, the pads were fairly noisy at this point.

Bed-in: I've never bed-in brakes before but I think I got enough heat in them to get a decent transfer layer based on pictures I've seen. http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...psbojv2asg.jpghttp://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2iicdqli.jpg

Noise: After the bed-in procedure they were very quiet for about a month. They just started to lightly squeal under 5mph while coming to a complete stop. Nothing annoying by any means but I went ahead and lightly bedded the pads again and they're back to being completely quiet.

Dust: They are dusty but I have bronze wheels and wash my car every other week so it really doesn't bother me.

Autocross: The HC+800 pads seem to have a lot more bite that the factory pads. I actually found myself overbraking a little because I've been used to the stock units. I need to adjust my driving to compensate for the additional bite.

Track: I will be attending my 1st track event in May and have no doubt the pads will be more than adequate for my experience level.

Price: These pads seem like a tremendous value and my experience ordering them through CSG was top notch!

Thanks for the details fstlane.

Based on the reported experiences so far, and some . . . errr . . . "counseling" from CSG Mike, I will probably move to a higher capability race-oriented compound.

It's great to have choices!

I threw a set of these on over the long weekend. My impressions are pretty much the same as everyone else's. Great pads at a great price. Thanks @CSG Mike

Significantly more bite than the stock pads. I will need to get a better feel for braking with this increased efficiency.

Minimal noise, only when coming to complete stop at low speeds. I hope to get these properly bedded today or tomorrow.

As for dust, the stock wheels look better all black anyway am I right? :lol:

I'm really look forward to seeing how they hold up at AMP March 14th.

Update
After about 6 months of daily driving, autocross and a track day, the pads are holding up great. I've noticed the only time they squeak is after a couple of weeks of dust build up. Rinsing off the calipers when washing the car cleans the dust out and quiets them up again. They still have 7mm of pad remaining even after abusing them during four 20 minute sessions in 100+ degree temperatures. They did fade a bit around 3/4 through the 20 minute sessions but I never felt as though they went off enough where my braking ability was compromised. Overall I'm still satisfied with the HC+800 pads!
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...psufdtjnqf.jpg
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...psmgkwjr84.jpg
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...pskxaufevl.jpg

That last pic is showing that you faded the pads pretty good!

Experienced track drivers will have no issue fading these pads out after a handful of laps. I will give them kudos for never going completely away tho. I don't like the soft pedal feel after they are really hot. I probably won't be using these for track days any longer unless I absolutely have to.

I have taken a liking to these pads for autoX use. They get into their effective temp range quickly w/o requiring a hard stop or 2 to put heat in them.

In daily conditions they are livable. They dust like a mofo and I haven't been able to get rid of the faint squeal once you get half way into the pad. I've read on this forum they require re-bedding but I haven't found that to make any difference. The squeal isn't nearly as loud as a full on track pad but it's not quiet like a street pad should be either.

Could these be used in front with a set of HP+ in rear? Or are the CoFs too different? Also does anyone know if these are more fade resistant than HP+ pads?

Different friction coefficient. Some people like less bite in the rear so it's a safer setup, but ultimately you'll be working the fronts harder to get the same level of deceleration characteristics. Non-staggered brake pad setups are the way to go! :thumbsup:

Soft pedal is brake fluid boiling. :bonk:

And then when I flush/replace the fluid and still don't like the pedal feel what will it be then? :bonk:

An air bubble trapped in the system.