Originally Posted by SubaSteve (Post 1467614)

I understand wholeheartedly that Toni is "trying" to help you which is good. I just want to make sure people have all the facts. People deserve to know the truth so they can make an honest decision when their are so many good vendors/tuners/mechanics on these forums.

As Dave said this is a free market and people will make their own decision. I just want to make sure people know their are consequences to going with cheaper.

Originally Posted by nelsmar (Post 1467627)

Yeah I fully agree that if FABWORX is still around and still replicating and there is evidence... banhammer. But I am trying to be as fair as possible.

However the fact Toni doesn't have coverage for this sort of thing is... sketchy.

Originally Posted by SubaSteve (Post 1467657)

Fab-worx was dumped right before he swapped to fa20club.

The coverage thing makes NO SENSE TO ME. Why wouldn't you have insurance for this kind of thing? Someone should chime in.

Originally Posted by nelsmar (Post 1465615)

So having tuning experience in the past I was obviously concerned with the sensor we would be using for AFR. Toni had previously told me the stock one is close enough as he has his base maps all tuned on the dyno and we would just be making tweaks to the MAF etc to get them dialed in to match. I still pushed saying I don’t mind paying for a wideband and that I wanted a gauge anyway. I don’t want a bunch of them but I don’t mind having that as it gives me peace of mind.

However I was assured that Toni had actually recalibrated the wideband with his own testing and had felt it was acceptable and typically within 0.5AFR accuracy. He told me it was just fine and there was no reason to purchase one. This conversation came up multiple times. I also had purchased his P3 gauge right away so I could simply see my AFR. However the fact it was always maxed out made me uncomfortable which is why I again offered to purchase and install a wideband and asked about wiring it into the ECU for easier to view logs. He said there was no reason even though we couldn’t see our AFR. I wasn’t comfortable with this but I figured at this point I was trying to trust him, no one has said anything bad, and he has tuned some of the fastest cars to date. I should try to listen to him. I fully regret this mistake.

Originally Posted by FullBlown (Post 1467594)

If you put both products on a CMM machine. I am willing to bet the angle of each bracket, and hole locations are dead on.

We have dealers in Florida that confirmed Fab-Worx copied it 100%

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR (Post 1467490)

As for JV, I've met him a few times up at AP in Toledo, Ohio.. he's a strange duck but none of the cars he personally touched had issues that I know of, AFRs, etc looked good. I know he's had his issues blowing up cars also though. :shrug: There is a risk with tuning, sometimes bad things happen. Sucks.. but..

Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1467764)

Cool story bro, :D. This is where it should have ended though. I don't know how I can stress this anymore, but EVERYONE WITH FORCED INDUCTION NEEDS A BOOST GAUGE AND A WIDEBAND GAUGE. It isn't a suggestion, it isn't a, "Oh I will add it later", it is a MANDATORY upgrade when going forced induction. This is also what killed @Frs300 's car along with other FA20s.

Originally Posted by SubaSteve (Post 1467657)

Fab-worx was dumped right before he swapped to fa20club.

The coverage thing makes NO SENSE TO ME. Why wouldn't you have insurance for this kind of thing? Someone should chime in.

Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1467764)

Cool story bro, :D. This is where it should have ended though. I don't know how I can stress this anymore, but EVERYONE WITH FORCED INDUCTION NEEDS A BOOST GAUGE AND A WIDEBAND GAUGE. It isn't a suggestion, it isn't a, "Oh I will add it later", it is a MANDATORY upgrade when going forced induction. This is also what killed @Frs300 's car along with other FA20s.

Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1467764)

Cool story bro, :D. This is where it should have ended though. I don't know how I can stress this anymore, but EVERYONE WITH FORCED INDUCTION NEEDS A BOOST GAUGE AND A WIDEBAND GAUGE. It isn't a suggestion, it isn't a, "Oh I will add it later", it is a MANDATORY upgrade when going forced induction. This is also what killed @Frs300 's car along with other FA20s.

Originally Posted by T-dub (Post 1467855)

Why would they? If they did, then every bone head that blows up their motor would try to claim it on their insurance. As it is, the owner has to spend a bunch of lawyer money to prove that the shop screwed up (which is difficult to do most of the time). That is a natural deterrent. The bottom line is that if your car blows up, it is on YOU!



...and since it is on YOU, then YOU need to take precautions. Just having a wide band O2 is not enough. You have to OBEY it. When AFR gets out of range. Park. Your. Car....and don't start it again until it is fixed. When your gut tells you something isn't right, but the tuner says it is fine....get another tuner. NO ONE is going to be an advocate for your car except YOU.

Personally, I would add to the list of things you need before going FI.
- Enough $$$ on hand in case you forget something for the build (Oh, I need an oil cooler now)
- Enough $$$$ on hand to replace the motor if it blows.
- Alt transportation in case the build takes longer than expected. (unexpected problems can take time to diagnose, order parts and fix)

Originally Posted by nelsmar (Post 1467930)

Every time foot went down my eyes were on my gauge. It's sad that I had believed Toni that the factory wideband could be used don't get me wrong for general use it can be if calibrated correctly in certain conditions. It's close within a margin.... Ther were a number of times I let off and immediatly logged the car and inspected it. I wish I just would have gone with my gut and wired an lc2 in.

Originally Posted by Dan@AWD (Post 1466978)

Seems to me its the owners fault for continuing to drive it knowingly on 14 / 15 afr's. You dynoed the car seeing the reaults of the dyno wideband, but you continued to drive it spriritedly as you stated in your post. Owner blew his own motor.