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... vs. Mazdaspeed 3 || Drift wars!? Duh efffff?
Thought this was pretty cool and funny, not something you would expect to look so clean? Idk...
I decided to search youtube for 'mazdaspeed 3 drift' and found this hahaha - pretty clean: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxZ_1oCo_CU"]Mazdaspeed3 Drift! - YouTube[/ame] |
They pulled it off pretty well... but it's still just an e-brake slide ^_^
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i dont get why people differentiate an ebrake slide with a drift.
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The difference is that you can't hook up drifts one after the other and do powerslides dragging the ass on a FWD car.
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That's a powerslide not a drift. If it helps the Mazda owner feel better about himself then all power to him.
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Using the e-brake to swing the rear around while the front wheels drag the car is not technically drifting, as I understand it. Do correct me if I'm wrong. |
[ame="http://youtu.be/x6thh_Iw92w"]http://youtu.be/x6thh_Iw92w[/ame]
Yup because this is not considered drifting or linking corners...sorry I just know too many Japanese friends and FWD rally drivers that would think otherwise. The e-brake is a perfectly acceptable tool to use which RWD drivers still use to connect corners and even D1 drivers to include Keiichi Tsuchiya use the e-brake especially with underpowered vehicles. |
[ame="http://youtu.be/w5gbIhyEyzg"]http://youtu.be/w5gbIhyEyzg[/ame]
Here is another one with a slightly unconventional grocery grabber. Seriously smooth. |
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It used to be that but now a powerslide is somehow considered a slide like this video. He put so much power into going fast to slide the car, it's still a grocery getter though so he fails. |
I feel this is getting a little too serious haha but honestly I am sorry... using your e-brake to break traction and slide is still drifting. If you think otherwise... :thumbsup: then no one will convince you
"Drifting is a technique where the driver intentionally or unintentionally oversteers causing loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires, while maintaining control from entry to exit of a corner." For example, please watch as these drivers don't use their e-brake to not drift... particularly at 0:48 sec. Watch as that noob shreds in his RWD car with all his non-drifting, e-braking skills. e-braking is just another technique, get over yourselves. [ame]http://youtu.be/qzFSBVBRvTE?t=41s[/ame] |
Sorry but no rwd = not drifting.
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Don't think it counts when you can only do it in the rain |
Here is an example where someone isn't using the ebrake to drift, slide, move sideways whatever the **** :P
again another technique. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ2CzeyCss0"]BMW M3 drifting: how to drift (2008) - YouTube[/ame] |
It's an E-drift yo.
I learned that from Forza Horizon. :-D |
these ridiculous subtleties make people seem pretentious. the only difference between fwd and rwd is where the power goes. so if you believe that only rwd cars can drift then you are automatically writing off about half of the catalog of drift techniques that people can use. i fail to see how if a 240sx driver used a feint or inertia to initiate a drift people consider that one of the more advanced techniques but if the same thing happens in a civic its a tasteless imitation of real talent.
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Yeah I am not saying its better. My title itself is a little ridiculous anyways lol It wasn't meant to be serious I just thought it looked nice for what it was, a turbo FWD hatchback - made it look clean that is all.
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You can initiate a drift withe the e-brake on a fwd car, but you can never hold the back end out while accelerating. That is the essence and the fun of it. Semi-equivalent fwd vs. rwd in a drifting competition just isn't done because fwd just isn't physically capable of holding the back end out on while on the power.
Fwd is inherently different from rwd. "Where the power goes" is a HUGE difference, a FUNDAMENTAL difference. In any kind of motorsport activity, but *particularly* in drifting. |
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Technically a drift requires all four tires to be sliding. If the rear wheels only are sliding that's just garden variety oversteer. Understeer if only the front tires are sliding. Of course tires don't have to be fully sliding for a car to under or oversteer. "Drifting" as a sport is a newer connotation of a word invented to describe high speed driving in the era before racing tires became very specialized. Drifting is no longer done in racing on Tarmac because it is slow. Drifting is still seen in rally cars bit it too is slow unless a drift is required to set a car up for a corner exit, particularly on loose traction surfaces. It isn't often used on Tarmac stages because it is so slow. When tires were poor, power to weight ratios were poor and cornering grip very limited a four wheel drift was the only way yo be quick around a race track. No longer the case, drifting is a super slow way to corner, even on modern street tires with low powered street cars. As a spectator sport drifting is unaccountably popular. The figure skating of the automotive world. That type of drift has no place in high performance driving on public roads and is rare in competition outside rally stages. |
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Spinning wheels = traction that could have been used to go faster. |
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Significantly no modern F1 car is ever drifted, ever, for any reason. Anytime you see it a driver has made a big mistake and his lap time suffers. As recently as the 80's guys like Villeneuve could be faster sideways than without wheelspin. That's how far tire technology has come. That's why Subaru fits lousy tires to our cars. Having said that, on lower grip surfaces where you have more torque than you can use, turning the car with oversteer or a bit of drift can be useful and even a safe driving technique. This is the real point. If the tires can't put down all the engine torque available then a drift can work, otherwise you're just wasting forward drive. |
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Thats a powerslide. Grab e brake at point where weight of car is off balance. That car could not transition instantly to another drift because he dropped from about 40 miles an hour to 10 not to mention it didnt even finish making the turn.
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You initiated a drift with a power slide. If your front wheels aren't also sliding it remains just a power slide. |
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_%28motorsport%29"]Drifting (motorsport) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
This article assumes the reader is smart enough to know that rear wheel driven car are the most practical, although there are some buffoons who erroneously think a front wheel driven car can do a proper drift. |
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[ame]http://youtu.be/WKRC51PSsgY[/ame] Finally, powersliding to me involves power-induced oversteer while the engine overpowers the rear (or all 4) tires. Locking up the handbrake to slide is not, never has been, and never will be a powerslide, since it involves no power. Hell, you could do it in a car without an engine, as long as you had a good sized hill to start out with. |
No, got the point. Still disagree. A car with only one axle sliding is just sliding.
I realize modern useage refers to this as drifting but it isn't. A drift, properly understood, is a situation where all four tires are sliding. To drift does not necessarily imply oversteer. In olden days when cars truly drifted on their fastest laps neutral drift was highly prized as the quickest way around a corner. "Drifting" as an activity (it hasn't a sport) may well be defined now as an extended power slide but that doesn't make it a drift. |
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LOL I drive a Mazdaspeed Genpu, and that video makes me to cringe.
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In a drift, after the car rotates to face the exit direction, you balance and maintain yaw while pushing the front tires into the apex with the rear. It is the act of "pushing" the sliding car down, through the apex and to track out that really defines a drift and it is a very nice feeling and looks quite different if you have the eye for it, they are completely different techniques. You can use the E-brake to increase your lateral acceleration and ROTATE the car ..but once the angle is set and you have rotated the car you shouldn't be using the e-brake anymore, you need power from the rear wheels to keep the center line of the car facing inside, slipping just enough to keep the car accelerating "sideways" while pushing the front tires down the track if you mess it up, you will rotate the car more, and have to counter. This is what I like to call Crab walking, which you see a lot in Formula D. Essentially oversteer is whenever rear slip exceeds front slip. It doesnt have to mean tail out. You want oversteer ONLY to "rotate" the car, then once its pointed inside, you want it to be neutral and to push the car through. If you hit understeer, the center line of the car will rotate back toward the outside, if you hit oversteer the center line of the car will rotate more inside and you will have to counter again and crabwalk. It is possible to get this done in a FWD ..but you cant get that balance of "rear push" and rear slip on asphalt easily, in rally they do a pretty damn good job on low traction surfaces. Because the grip is so low the rear end can slip a lot more without use of the handbrake and weight transition alone. So while people refer to "drifting techniques" As things like "Ebrake" "Shift lock" "power over" "Braking drift" or w/e else your Option videos want to call it. These are just drifting "techniques" they are techniques for "starting" a drift. Once it is started, you have to do what I have been describing to make it an actual drift. Essentially all drifting is the same , the differences only come down to how you start rotating the car, after you have rotated the car ..its as simple as finding out how you can keep your car neutral and every car is different. |
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Just wanting to add. It is very important to keep in mind, that once your car is rotated so the center line is facing the apex/track out in front, and outside in the rear (rather than tracking normally) The power you give to the wheels ADDS cornering force ..because the cars ass is now facing the outside, the power you apply drives you closer to the inside and pushes your car inside and this is what you want. AWD does it best
Check out f1technical.net on wether "is drift faster than grip". And see what drift really is and maybe it will give you some insights. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5932 |
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Countersteering increases front slip angle. This means understeer. You are increasing front slip so that the front end tracks out to match the rear track radius and keep the car pointed on a straight line. understeer = front track radius increases. which is what you are doing when you manage oversteer. |
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Countersteer reduces front slip angle. Countersteer is required to reduce grip forces exerted at the front axle to match side force exerted at the rear axle and avoid a spin out. Oversteer results from the tires at the rear axle running at larger slip angles than the front axle. This means the rear axle loses side force first. To prevent oversteer requires that you reduce the front slip angle so as to prevent the rear tires from reaching the limit of grip first. Turning radius isn't really relevant, it's all slip angle. |
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Slip angle and grip are interrelated phenomena. However " 5 degrees" of slip angle is meaningless as a measure of tire grip. Tire compounds develop maximum frictional force when the rubber slides across the road surface at around 10% more than as compared to fully interlocked grip. This is how ABS and TC are set up to maximize tire grip. Wheel speed is measured and compared to free rolling theoretical wheel speed. Drift angle only improves cornering speeds is tires are unable to generate enough grip to drive the car forward and also turn the car. Good tires mean drifting is slower. Low power means drifting is slower. Oversteer is generally the slow way around a track. Occasionally a track will be set up such that power oversteer is quicker around one or two corners but that is rare with modern tires. |
I agree entirely. A properly setup car with a driver who knows what he is doing has no need for high yaw or drift.
If you read the whole thread it is addressed. It is something to consider if you are driving a car with squishier tires or bad setup. You shouldn't have one standard of driving, every car is different. My favorite response is how lateralizing the car "promotes confidence". In some situations, if you can put your self in a better mindset to attack a corner ...and if drift helps you do that (like rally, thats the only reason they slide so much is it gives you more variability in correcting your mistakes) Drifting can be consistently fast and provide you with more options if you make a mistake, but is never optimal or FASTEST for the best time. Everybody knows that. But depending on who you are and the situation, "you" might drive the car faster with a drift, than fudging out an ideal grip line. If you feel you need to do that ..because there is a low grip patch here ...or there ... or your tires are getting overheated and you want to avoid understeering on your normal grip line ..then you might want to just drive the car on the knife edge with a bit of wobble and drift ...is it ideal? No ..you shouldn't be in that situation in the first place. But it is always worth experimenting with and exploring. But I agree with you. It is a discussion thread, you see many opinions but I just thought it was worth a look. |
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