Originally Posted by Suberman (Post 1404433)

Why don't you go find it. Google got you down?

Originally Posted by Suberman (Post 1406345)

No, got the point. Still disagree. A car with only one axle sliding is just sliding.

I realize modern useage refers to this as drifting but it isn't.

A drift, properly understood, is a situation where all four tires are sliding.

To drift does not necessarily imply oversteer.

In olden days when cars truly drifted on their fastest laps neutral drift was highly prized as the quickest way around a corner.

"Drifting" as an activity (it hasn't a sport) may well be defined now as an extended power slide but that doesn't make it a drift.

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 1399194)

i dont get why people differentiate an ebrake slide with a drift.

Originally Posted by Photonic (Post 1431829)

Because they are totally different dynamics. In a drift the car is understeering BUT in a state of yaw. (yaw is measured in degrees of rotation at each end around an objects center point vs its direction of travel)

In a drift, after the car rotates to face the exit direction, you balance and maintain yaw while pushing the front tires into the apex with the rear.

It is the act of "pushing" the sliding car down, through the apex and to track out that really defines a drift and it is a very nice feeling and looks quite different if you have the eye for it, they are completely different techniques.

You can use the E-brake to increase your lateral acceleration and ROTATE the car ..but once the angle is set and you have rotated the car you shouldn't be using the e-brake anymore, you need power from the rear wheels to keep the center line of the car facing inside, slipping just enough to keep the car accelerating "sideways" while pushing the front tires down the track

if you mess it up, you will rotate the car more, and have to counter.

This is what I like to call Crab walking, which you see a lot in Formula D.

Essentially oversteer is whenever rear slip exceeds front slip. It doesnt have to mean tail out. You want oversteer ONLY to "rotate" the car, then once its pointed inside, you want it to be neutral and to push the car through. If you hit understeer, the center line of the car will rotate back toward the outside, if you hit oversteer the center line of the car will rotate more inside and you will have to counter again and crabwalk.

It is possible to get this done in a FWD ..but you cant get that balance of "rear push" and rear slip on asphalt easily, in rally they do a pretty damn good job on low traction surfaces. Because the grip is so low the rear end can slip a lot more without use of the handbrake and weight transition alone.

So while people refer to "drifting techniques" As things like "Ebrake" "Shift lock" "power over" "Braking drift" or w/e else your Option videos want to call it. These are just drifting "techniques" they are techniques for "starting" a drift. Once it is started, you have to do what I have been describing to make it an actual drift. Essentially all drifting is the same , the differences only come down to how you start rotating the car, after you have rotated the car ..its as simple as finding out how you can keep your car neutral and every car is different.


*edit*

Just wanting to add. It is very important to keep in mind, that once your car is rotated so the center line is facing the inside, and outside (rather than tracking normally) The power you give to the wheels ADDS cornering force ..because the cars ass is now facing the outside, the power you apply drives you closer to the inside and pushes your car inside and this is what you want.

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 1432189)

You bring up some valid points but I still don't think it makes sense. If drifting required understeer, that wouldn't be counter steering. You also don't mention anything but requiring power to drift which is half of the conversation.

Originally Posted by Photonic (Post 1432220)

Countersteering increases front slip angle. This means understeer. You are increasing front slip so that the front end tracks out to match the rear track radius and keep the car pointed on a straight line. understeer = front track radius increases. which is what you are doing when you manage oversteer.

Originally Posted by Photonic (Post 1432214)

Just wanting to add. It is very important to keep in mind, that once your car is rotated so the center line is facing the apex/track out in front, and outside in the rear (rather than tracking normally) The power you give to the wheels ADDS cornering force ..because the cars ass is now facing the outside, the power you apply drives you closer to the inside and pushes your car inside and this is what you want. AWD does it best

Check out f1technical.net on wether "is drift faster than grip". And see what drift really is and maybe it will give you some insights.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5932

Originally Posted by Suberman (Post 1432284)

.????

Countersteer reduces front slip angle. Countersteer is required to reduce grip forces exerted at the front axle to match side force exerted at the rear axle and avoid a spin out.

Oversteer results from the tires at the rear axle running at larger slip angles than the front axle. This means the rear axle loses side force first. To prevent oversteer requires that you reduce the front slip angle so as to prevent the rear tires from reaching the limit of grip first.