The Porsche Cayman is a nice car, but now it's stuck with a turbo 4 cylinder engine. I can't imagine there is a lot of potential left for getting more power out of it. Not compared to an iron block inline 6 anyways. I wouldnt be surprised if the Supra steals the Cayman's crown for best driver's car.


The Mustang is also 3,700lbs and a much larger car. The Supra is slated to weigh around 3,200lbs and it will be a more compact car with a lower seating position. Plus it's going to be a lot more exclusive than a Mustang, I see those on the road everywhere.

Really no chance in hell of it being a better driving car than the Porsche. The Mustang or Camaro performance models? Maybe.


BTW that 3200 lbs is for the 4 cylinder model.

we don't know that for sure. the only info given by Toyota on weight was during the media test drive in Spain. Toyota did confrim that the I6 Supra was less than 1,500kg (3,306lbs). 9 days to go! :happyanim:

What makes you say that?

Everything we know about the car thus far, and everything we know about the (already released) BMW Z4.

And I won't even mention the Porsche having manual shift options, but for auto comparison the PDK >>> ZF 8sp

Iron block inline six?

I am confused about the relevance.

I test-drove BRZs same day as 987 Caymans, and the Porsches were not *to me* "better-driving" cars. Actually the BRZs felt a lot more engaging.

For sure the Supra will, for drivers like myself anyway, be a much more fun and rewarding car to drive than a Mustang or Camaro. And possibly modern Porsches as well. We shall see...

Wouldn't an iron block inline 6 hypothetically be able to handle more power compared to an all aluminum 4 cylinder block? Or am I mistaken?

You are comparing the Cayman to the BMW Supra. How is an iron block inline 6 cylinder relevant to either one of them? That is what had me confused.

I believe this is how they reinforce the aluminum block by means of plasma coating.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qee_kX1bpEk[/ame]


http://autocomponentsindia.com/helle...engine-blocks/

All the cars at $60k or so:


M2
C. grand sport
gt350
cayman



The Supra is up against prodigious competition. We will see what it can do...

GRMN Supra to be built in Toyota factory?

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/202...rer.278/page-6

He has me a bit confused to, more so with his hypothesizing about about power handling with cars that people don't generally look for 700hp out when modding.

looks like the 4 banger is coming after all. :(

https://www.supramkv.com/attachments...6_n-jpg.10723/

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toy...ra-model.1487/

Really really hope so :D

I agree but unless you live in Japan... I don't think you can get them easily. Every Major Toyota Dealer in Japan had the Area 86 convert into GR section booth/display the last 2 years & I'm sure there is tons of stuff going on those walls very soon.

Gotta compete with base model Camaros and ecoboost mustangs somehow I guess.


:barf:

I thought the new Supra had an inline 6 with an iron block, I guess I'm mistaken though? I thought that was confirmed

I really don't understand the hate...

I also don't see how less weight with more rearward weight distribution would make a 4cyl Supra somehow like a Camaro or Mustang...

They're both RWD 4cyl turbo performance cars?

IMO cylinder count is not much of a measure of what a car is...

Supra is a dedicated 2-seat sports car, Mustang and Camaro are huge, heavy 2-door sedans.

4-cylinder Supra should be somewhat lighter-weight and have better weight distribution than the 6-cylinder, as far as I'm concerned that makes it *less* like a Mustang/Camaro...


Mainly I don't understand why people should actively NOT want a lighter/cheaper Supra available to those of us who don't want the extra weight.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen someone compare an Ecoboost Mustang to a Cayman.

BMW B58

I thought the block itself was the M57?

I'm not, i'm saying the 4cyl Supra will compete with the mustang/camaro


I agree with your points, but I'm pretty sure they will be cross-shopped.

The M57 is a diesel motor introduced in 1998/1999.

Why would the Supra compete with the pony cars but not the Cayman? They all have turbo 4 engine options

I know, I saw this a couple months ago, but I guess it was never confirmed.

"it's solid iron, but I believe it's likely composed of CGI. What I don't know is specifically where the block came from; I was told it was an existing design that hinted at the M57, but my latest conversation almost sounded like the motor will still carry a B58 designation (different version number?)

As Guff said, one of Tada's closest friends made a FB post about the block being iron a few days back if anyone was still on the fence. This particular individual is privy to product planning/PR and engineering efforts and generally knows this information before anyone else outside of Tada's inner circle (even myself)."

It is an aluminum engine. They use a fusing system to line the cylinder walls with an iron composite to make them more durable and slippery. That does not reinforce the strength of the block itself. It just makes the cylinder walls harder.

FT86 competes with 4-cylinder Camaro/Mustang on price.
4-cylinder Supra should compete with Camaro SS 1LE /Mustang Bullitt on price. I hope...
6-cylinder Supra will compete with Camaro ZL1/Mustang GT350(R)/GT500 on price.

At any level, there's a Camaro/Mustang for the Supra to compete with.

I see the appeal of lighter weight and better weight distribution from a 4 cylinder option, but most 2.0 liter turbo 4 cylinder engines are boring as hell. Everyone has one; oh how special!

Additionally, the 2.0T engines that BMW builds all sound like diesel engines at idle & low speed. That is, to say, awful.

personally im not hating on the idea. but imo they should have called the 4 banger version a Celica.

yes an apples to oranges comparison. think what people are trying to say is that there has to be a cheaper base model to sell to mass and help cover some of the R&D for the higher trim models.

The lower power is a big deficit to overcome for many.


It will be interesting to see how they compare, but it wouldn't be surprising to see the supra and Camaro be very alike numbers wise. If you get the upgraded Camaro packages I'd almost say it would outperform the 4 cylinder supra. Who knows, we will probably see shortly after release.


3300 lbs and 275 hp / 295 lb ft.... the Camaro turbo 4 is likely to be easier to make power with too.

??? Existence of 4-cylinder model does not affect the power output of the 6-cylinder model...

And if you get the ZL1 Camaro it will outperform the 6-cylinder Supra at the same price. I think it's safe to say that at any given price point, the Camaro is going to "outperform" the Toyota (86, 4cyl Supra, 6cyl Supra) in every instance. The existence of a 4 cylinder Supra doesn't change that.
Still, some of us would rather have a smaller, lighter-weight, shorter-wheelbase sports car even if it is slower vs. a much more powerful Camaro at the same price point.
For sure I would MUCH rather have:
FT86 >> 4 or 6 cylinder Camaro or Mustang
4-cylinder Supra >> V8 Camaro or Mustang
6-cylinder Supra >> Supercharged V8 Camaro or Mustang

Whether I agree with you on that or not, the deal breaker for me is I'd rather have a Camaro designed and built by GM, or a Mustang designed and built by Ford than a "Supra" designed and built by BMW.

Now if Toyota had designed and built it, we'd be a little closer.

It doesn't affect the inline six models power. What it does do is take a marquee car and kind of water it down. If the gtr came in a 4 cylinder model it would be a similar scenario.

Your comparison and desires are your own.... but jfc expand your horizons. The new supra hasn't even been released yet and you say you'd rather have it over proven platforms.

Oh, are you one of those that still thinks the 86 was 100% designed and built by Subaru? I'd suggest you look into the development origins and history of both the 86 and the Supra, and note the parts content on the 86 is very nearly 50/50 Toyota/Subaru. If anything, the Supra will likely be more Toyota centric design and content wise than the 86 was based on reports.

The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you'd prefer having no Supra or 86 at all because of brand snobbery. Personally I'm happy to have Toyota make cars for enthusiasts even though they know in the long run it will cost them more money then they will make. If cooperation with other enthusiast brands makes it possible, then I'm down.

Enjoy your two ton led sled with chinese 'domestic' parts tho. :cheers:

One week to go.

Well, the GTR is an enormous and heavy car. But still, I wouldn't see a 4-cylinder GTR junior as a necessarily bad idea...

It is possible to be somewhat aware about the kinds of things one likes and to pretty well *know* these things in advance. I've been around new Mustangs and Camaros on the street and at the track for a while now, and I know they are not for me. I just like sitting lower in much smaller, shorter-wheelbase, lower-beltline cars. And I don't like being in or driving giant bricklike behemoths. No matter how "proven" they are. Not for me...

SF member is keeps claiming the 4 banger will be called Celica Supra.