Max power for factory drivetrain and engine internals
 

What would you guys say is the max amount of power the factory drivetrain and engine block will hold reliably on a street machine that sees track time often? I'm talking stock engine internals with upgraded cooling and fueling only, reliable pump gas fuel and ignition tune. Supercharged or turbo charged boost. And maybe a clutch, all else factory components.

Tranny is "medium" torque rated... I would think you'd start having problems around 300-350 whp. But that's just my ballpark idea from a couple threads on here.

Nobody knows any hard facts but I'll throw my opinion

A properly tuned motor could run on e85 with 500whp or so

A gearbox won't last long over 300tq ( with my driving style such as flat hard ass shifting daily )

The diff with an upgraded CF shaft only would last some time if you don't launch it with stickey ass slicks

Clutch would start bitching over 270~

Fuel system at 300 ?


Everything I stated is just me assuming stuff.

200 hp...

K ttks bye

The oil pump has a variable gear to save gas. In the torque dip its actually designed for lower pressure rate of increase than the typical 10 psi per 1k rpm. So add a bunch of torque in that rpm range with boost ? Weird things like this are just now being uncovered and dealt with.

If you really drive the car (more than a few daily WOT pulls on the highway) follow Dezoris's build videos, it is a very smart approach, I think he is around 220 rwhp.

Fuel and clutch will be accounted for with up rated/upgraded pieces as with the engine cooling systems oil and coolant. Only thing you cannot touch is the engine block and trans/diff hard parts.

I realize that guys have gone way over 400WHP with the factory engine with boost and E85 tunes, but the reliability and longevity of this type of setup is questionable especially under the rigors of track time. For this hypothetical situation I'm only concerned with boost and pump gas. No E85, no alcohol/meth injection, no race fuel, just pump gas.

Yes I've read about and seen his set up. Very high quality and well thought out, but also very "safe." A little too conservative for my taste. This car can handle more abuse than that. His is more of a "trackable street tune" I looking for something closer to a "streetable track tune" than that, but something more livable and reliable than a full on track setup with functioning lights.

Then I wouldn't see much concern. You aren't going to make much more than 300-350 whp with pump gas anyways. Without slicks I wouldn't expect much issue.

I have been trying to push the car more and more the stock tranny is still on my car and I'm abusing 400whp++ daily and redline daily 16,500 miles been boosted since a week after purchase of the car :) internals hold well! So far

With great balls comes great cars :)

Can you elaborate on that oil pump "issue" ? I never heard of anything like this.

You aren't going to test the car fully in florida, its flat with nothing but miles of straight roads. Take her up for a trip to the appalacians and find some backroads, fun stuff.



http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/fo...OOOOOM!http://


Its post #3

First I've heard of this... Interesting

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Interesting... seems like many bad things happen to this engine around 4-5K rpms, including the direct injector seals getting burnt. Is there a photo of diagram of this oil pump available?

Over 9000

I just went looking through the service manual to see if the oil pump tear down was in there. It wasn't but after looking through some of the pictures it appears that the main bearings are half groove. Half groove bearings work well at low RPM, but at high rpm will start to pump oil on there own, and force the oil back toward the oil pump. This could be the cause of the weird oil pressure vs. rpm plot. Also makes me wonder if the secret sauce bearings in FRS300's engine build are just two sets of FA20 main bears combined to make full grove bearings.

Really? I have never seen my oil pressure gauge drop PSI on the dip range (or any other RPM for that matter) or not increase exactly as is any other RPM.... :iono:

where did you find the half groove info i dont see that anywhere in the pdf manual i have maybe mine is a pos

Yep, you can fully test the car in FL, just run it hard on the track.


Oh and post #3 Looks Legit....

Seriously man, it seems you have 86 Hypochondria.

So you mean to tell me Crawford, FBM, FA20, Don, Treadstone, et. al. have taken the engine apart but none have taken the time to explain this about the FA20 oil pump and how it affects cars, and none have designed an upgrade to make money off of it?? Is it POSSIBLE yes! But I find it hard to believe that not even one of them would capitalize on this and design SUCH a needed upgrade.


But this is America, we are all free to say what we want so go ahead with the FA20 POS campaign :)

MILES AND STR8 roads are all i need lol :party0030: if i go on some back roads ill end up drifting and just burning tires lol ill leave that up to someone else. but for now 25,000 turbo miles by december and more daily abuse wil be made by me :). I willl keep pushing untill i cant push no more than BUILD and push that as far as i can go then on to the next project :) !!

I was just looking at the pcs in the PDF that's on here. It was by no means definitive, but I have seen half groove bearings in the past and they acted in a similar fashion.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/fo...OOOOOM!http://


Its post #3

il will take a look at this myself hook up my computer and see the presure im curious, but untill then i need soild facts numbers vidoes sheet lol sadly thats how society is! that link could have been anything "overboost" , "shit tune", what ever excuse i can think of

as always it depends 100% on how you use the car. you could drive around at 400+whp on a turbo car with absolutely no other mods, and if all you're doing is driving to the local walmart for some hard-parking, it'll probably last forever. if you take a stock car to the track every weekend, it probably won't last very long. extrapolate in between.

The transmission is the part that worries me more at this point

agreed! but i WOT to walmart hahahha jk jk.. im still curious to the oil drop thing

walmart is 1/4 mile away exactly from my house

You do know that WOT pulls aren't a high stress with this car? WOT is completely open loop and purely dependent on simple dyno tuning.

Its the part throttle on/off mid to high rpm up hills, feathering around sharp turns stuff that stresses this motor.

I was kidding! but i do drift also 4 set of tires in like 2 months. Like i said i do bounce the redline alot! :happyanim:

Nah Bro... U still ain't testing the limits of the car... You might be drifting, but its still drifting in shitty FL!! :bellyroll::bellyroll:

Yea drifting is definitely stressing the car, awesome report. Thanks.

i will post some of the videos soon :party0030: and keep on pushing the car with what i have in florida like you said just highway lol... i leave most of the curves with others to test

With a problem like loosing oil pressure, it's not going to matter too much if you are boosted or n/a. It's just not a good thing whether at 100HPS or 1000HPS.

We've had quite a few grenaded motors in the FT86 community, and many of them were not heavily modified at all. I thought it was "just" the direct injector seals causing trouble, now we got droping oil pressures to worry about too?

This motor is junk! j/k nah.. I'm sure someone will find solution and make a small fortune out of selling a overpriced product.:bonk:

I think you just defined Crawford.

all it will take is someone to log it with a laptop and an oil pressure gauge

who has had this problem!? this is new to me! besides that one article

i would do it right now but its raining and its sunday lol :lol:
if someone doesnt beat me to it ill do it some time this week :iono:

Last time I seen something like this was my ex girlfriends 16 Y/O sister.. :slap:

I think one of the forum moderators was logging his oil pressures intensively after having installed an oil cooler. Maybe they can chime in and offer some of his findings. @Dave-ROR, care to show us your "log?" :laughabove:

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Th...c52eddcdd6.jpg

i in no way support or like crawford but was interested with them selling FULL short and long blocks for decent prices that i discussed with them at Subiefest