Direct Injector Seal Installation | Video and Issues
 

DIRECT INJECTION TECH
SEAL REPLACEMENT AND MANIFOLD REMOVAL

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...0-h50-no/1.jpg


VIDEO SHOWING REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdeO4rBwuQ4"]Scion FR-S BRZ Direct Injector Seal Replacement | Problems and Issues - YouTube[/ame]

0:00-2:00 Tech Overview
2:00-3:00 The Problem
3:15-15:20 Removal of Intake Manifold and Port Injectors
15:20-18:30 Direct Injector Overview
18:30-27:00 Injector Seal Replacement
27:00-30:25 Re-Install of DI, Intake Manifold and Port Injection
30:25-33:00 Final Thoughts

FOUL LANGUAGE WARNING


Welcome to the D4S injector seal discussion thread.
Please use this thread to discuss and provide any information you have in regards to this issue. Questions or Facts are welcome as we attempt to clarify and dispel myths.

This is NOT a DYI. It is a guide to show process and discuss.


REMOVAL OF INTAKE MANIFOLD AND INJECTORS LABOR:

• Removal and re-installation of intake manifold - 3.0 HOURS
• Fuel System Precautions - 10 MINUTES
• Port Injector Seal Replacement - 5 MINUTES
• Direct Injector Seal Replacement - 1.5 Hours

SPECIAL TOOLS NEEDED:

• SST Seal Tool: OT09260-39020-01
• Motor Oil and Engine Part Cleaner

NON RE-USABLE PARTS:

• Port Injector O-Rings
• Direct Injector fuel lines (QTY2)
• DI Backup Ring, Insulator, Primary Seal and O-rings

OVERVIEW AND IMPRESSIONS



As usual with any project you tackle for the first time we prepared for at least 8 hours in the shop. Removal of the intake manifold was aided by using the factory service manual and the Innovate Supercharger instructions. We took our time initially, removing everything was mostly straight forward.

The major thing we can recommend is to have all the parts you need and back up seals and o-rings for the direct injectors ahead of time and plan for the fact these parts are on back order.

We had one MAJOR ISSUE during re-installation. When we had everything re-installed we had a fuel leak on one of the port injectors.
This was because an o-ring sheared off during install. Luckily we had back up rings. This is a potential problem for everyone. Luckily it was not on the direct injection as this would have set back the process hours.
been a major setback.

We also had a start stall issue right after, which seemed to be solved by removing the negative battery cable and resetting the ECU.



DIRECT INJECTOR SEALS


We found a fair amount of play in all of the injector seals up and down the shaft even after the primary seal was replaced. It appears this is because Toyota designed a bevel on the shaft.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R...987-no/fsi.jpg



We can assume that this play in the seal was by design. Our problem was it only effected two of the four injectors which personally I am not comfortable with. As it creates inconsistency. Our findings have been submitted to our local Toyota dealership for the regional technician to clarify. This condition is not listed in the service manual for trouble shooting.


As you can see this is the information we submitted to get clarification.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...o/Page1-DI.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P...o/Page2-DI.jpg



DIRECT INJECTOR SEAL INSTALLATION



Installing the new seals for those who have not done it before requires patience and practice. We tried our best to show the method that worked best for us but be prepared and but extra seals if this is your first time as it is almost likely you will destroy at least one seal your first attempt.


Plan on 20 minute per injector for the seals. The manual process to press them on is arduous. We used plenty of oil on the press plate by the 3rd seal install to aid process and to get seal on smoothly. Allowing seal to relax before pressing also helped.




https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F...-h250-no/3.jpg



Please note you can just order the injector as the seals come pre-installed however you would need to pull the injectors first to inspect the stratified flow number stamped on the injector. The number is either 1, 2 or 3.
All 4 injectors need to be the same number and carry different part numbers. The difference is the angle at which the tips spray fuel into the cylinder. What the variance is... Unknown.



https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j...-h250-no/2.jpg



FINAL THOUGHTS

The white teflon seals are extremely fragile, removing the old seals is as simple as pinching with needle nose pliers and they shred. While installing the seals I damaged it with a finger nail that is how soft they are.

With that said, injector failure due to seals could be easily related to detonation or faulty install from the factory. Since the injector body is beveled I could see these easily blowing up on the shaft and cracking off if damaged during install. In terms of heat destroying them, that seems unlikely but possible if they are cracked or damaged.



SHOULD PEOPLE WORRY?

I think after removing and replacing them, one thing is clear and please use the illustration below. If the seal has failed, symptoms will appear and persist. It's not something that will come and go. Rough idle and popping from the intake won't just magically disappear if the seal is gone. Misfires will also be common, and you may get a CEL or rough idle but no popping.

If you have the issue, you will know and take care if it right away.
If you have some idle drop, a pop once you never hear again. It's likely not the seals.

Its totally possible a failing seal will cause some random issues, however they will get worse and more prevalent until seal disintegrates.

If you are running a stock car under warranty, drive it like normal, and don't worry until symptoms are frequent (AKA Almost every drive).

If you go and pound the hell out of the car and up and down the rev band, and don't have any strange pops or misfires, chances are you are totally fine. Again, its something that would show itself with symptoms.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C...o/gdilarge.jpg



Out of Warranty High HP Users:

If you buy this car used, or are running high HP or were on the stock ECU tune for plenty of miles or your logs show plenty of detonation, pull the injectors and inspect the seals. It's a cover your ass measure until we get a straight answer as to what the root cause is from Toyota.

This is money, thanks for taking the time to do this.

Nice, I sure hope I never see this issue.

Great info, thanks a lot!

I hope to add to this as I get more answers and clarification.

Awesome.

Actual tool use was different from what I assumed

I am going to give you the new one I just got in as I dropped yours like 5 times when the hat comes flying off the tip.

Thanks a ton for lending it.

No problem, I hope I never have to use it myself

No homo but i fucking love u now

Thanks for providing this info, very helpful after reading all the threads on this topic.

Wow...thank you!

Many thanks, were are you located in Illinois?

Northern Illinois.
1 hour from Chicago.

thanks for the vids! it's well explained!:thumbsup:

Thanks for taking the time to create a howto video on changing injectors.

Just wondering what qualifies you on the advice/recommendations you make? Are you an automotive engineer? You have to be careful on this forum; a lot of people will listen to any old rubbish and take it as gospel.

Don't take any of it as gospel. Take the info and make up your own mind. But based on what we saw, I feel the recommendations are good common sense advice until proven otherwise. Feel free to offer alternate opinions. I work in a technical field, have a lot of exposure enough to have some opinions but, that's where it ends.
This is to start a discussion based on some relevant info and build on it.
Just want to say its not about right or wrong for me, just want to provide actual content on the topic not just BS.

Bottom line I want Toyota eng, to specify normal operating perimeters that will be gospel to me.

Keep it up,....people can decide for themselves. Originally from about an hour west of Chi town.

Thanks @Dezoris for another great video with tons of useful information. Hopefully the Toyota rep gets back to you somewhat quickly.

I wonder about the stratified injectors, if you don't know the number of yours could you just order 4 injectors with the same stratified part #? or would that be a bad idea?

Thanks for doing this! Your contributions to this forum are extremely valuable!

Great write-up, very informative.

thank you! this will help many memebers. i hope i dont have this issue.

I don't see any obvious reason why you could not switch it as long as they are the same however, their had to be a reason they coded each motor with a specific injector. May have something to do with the block/cylinder casting process. If their is some variation between this they may have switched the injectors based on code/serial of motor based on injector angle, spray angle or even spark plug angle.

So until someone can provide a answer as to the mechanical differences, I would keep them the same.

My old Insight had keyed spark plugs same situation as this car. You had to pull them to find the number to order the correct ones. Annoying.

excellent post. Paging @SkullWorks for possible collaboration.

Thanks for all the video's, please keep up the amazing job!

Morning!

I hadn't noticed any variance in the shafts of the injectors I pulled, good catch.

I would like to know how many of the failed seal cases have that chamfer on the backside of the seal groove...I can't say I like it I haven't noticed that on the Audi Hardware and I'll have another look at my VK56 DI injector tonight...don't recall it there either.

@Dezoris: Excellent work. Thanks! Watched it during lunch and had to laugh at how much of a rat's nest we have to deal with to access these parts. Seeing the actual seal installation was great, as this is easily the biggest place of concern I have with this engine.

Thanks for the SST tool part number as well.

The YouTube comments were equally entertaining, especially one from the "F-bomb user" who was amazingly offended by Turbo's use of the word. Welcome to Mechanicsville, kiddo. :bellyroll:

The language and entertainment value alone made it worth watching. :thumbsup:

I don't work on cars for a living, so my exposure and I am sure most mechanics don't go pulling or replacing DI injectors all that often, so if you have any more data definitely appreciate it.

Thanks man, the swearing was just a by product of shop work all day everyday. You forget after a while you are mic'd and the cameras are rolling so it was just like you said mechanicsville.

Hope this helps if anyone wants to inspect or tackle this down the road.

Ha... no explanation needed. We have a First Amendment for a reason so exercise it often—especially when working on these engines. :D

On a side note, I'm surprised that the seal height isn't greater (say, 0.5mm, for example) and uses the angle in the collar as a mechanical wedge. There must be a reason why the injector masts have an angle rather than a shelf. I guess I need to see one of these in person to get a better insight on the design.

I find myself looking at the top of the opening (base of the injector solenoid) with that nice big wedge shape and wondering if some ambitious engineer couldn't come up with a secondary seal that would fit in there as a backup.

Nor do I. I just get to see the parts that need to be improved...been looking at alot of DI lately.

As always I will share what info I have.

Thanks for this man, i just got my car back for a second DI seal replacement since i got a code even after toyota replaced the engine. I really hope there is a permanent solution for this. Btw when my engine blew i had no popping noise other than a check engine light and the car going into limp mode and misfiring, i never had a popping noise of any kind until it actually failed.

Did they replace the seals or injectors?
I will update the first post about misfiring/codes.

Did they replace the coils as well?

Dezoris,

You are a beast. Nothing but gold coming out of your threads. Keep it up.

Thanks its been fun, sometimes.

Exhaust too loud?

Just now watching the video. Very informative. I expected this to be quite in depth but this is a step or two higher than what I expected.

"according to the manual, you don't want to fuck this step up". I couldn't stop laughing at this for some reason. People should watch this for at least for entertainment value even if they never plan to replace the seals themselves.

Edit: Just finished, I never even considered an improper installation from the factory. Obviously this must be an automated process which would lead one to wonder what percentage of direct injectors are built/sealed correctly.

Also, as for the bevel, my instinct would tell me that a bevel that is made with small tolerances with respect to the seal, would be beneficial in keeping the seal in place, no? The video contradicts this and I'm sure my thinking is likely to be wrong since I don't know the second thing about DI and I only play an engineer on tv.

Motiv catted test pipe and invidia N1, not really loud. My last issue that happened i only noticed it because i got a code no other symptoms really.


Nope just injector



Injector #3 this time last time it was #2 that caused the engine to die. Im guessing the seals were worn and since they did not replace them last time they finally failed. I got the code during a WOT for merging on to a highway from 4000-5000 rpms but really no symptoms other than a misfire and air & fuel ratio imbalance code, my new engine is not even broken in how sad.