How restrictive is the stock midpipe
 

I did a lot of searching but couldn't find a good answer so I am putting it up for discussion. I know Nameless decided to only go with an axle back because they didnt find much gains in the mid pipe but what are others results?

Would it be smarter to save money and just go with an axle back and then save for a front pipe/over pipe? Has anyone gone from an axle back to a cat back and noticed any gains?

Thoughts?

Fluid dynamics states that best results (however minimal) will be seen when the size of the channel (in this case, the pipe) is consistent throughout and as strait as possible. Most axle-backs are 2.5", while some are 3" and the greddy unit is 2.75" OD. I forget the stock mid-pipe OD, but it's somewhere around 2.15 or something, which is tiny and when mated to a 2.5"+ axle-back, results in turbulent air flow. With that said, the exact gains from having consistent sized piping will depend on things such as the way the pipe is routed (number of bends, etc..) and the shape and construction of the muffler. With that said, unless your build is purely aesthetic, then you should strive for piping diameter that is consistent as possible.

The only cat-back I have direct experience with is the FT86SpeedFactory V2 single-exit cat-back. It's 2.5" (which has the most aftermarket support) and has the straitest mid-pipe I have seen for our cars. Being single exit means less turbulence and, theoretically, should result in better flow, thus better gains. I have no dyno sheets or anything else to go by other than pure speculation since I do not know how the muffler was constructed, but my gut told me it was the best choice for a functional cat-back. Again, if aesthetics are of a higher priority, then you probably don't want the single exit design.

To summarize, the answer to your question depends entirely on your goals and personal taste.

This is kind of how I felt, thanks for the extensive input.

If I had to guess I'd guess that replacing the ~2.12" mid-pipe with a 2.5" pipe should add 2whp. More with supporting mods like FI.

here is a comparison of a stock midpipe vs. a modified midpipe

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...DBA11E9EA5.jpg

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...DBCFEA481F.jpg

my test car showed 5-6 hp gains with the modified mid pipe


click here for more info ---> http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24472

and here to order ---> http://www.86-zn6.com/WORKS-EXhale-M...aust_p_50.html

I was wondering samething as OP. hmmm i still can't decide if i should go with full-catback or axleback

I'm going nameless axelback with that works midpipe.

for what it's worth, Nameless said.....that the original mid pipe is lighter and has the same performance as the midpipe Nameless built and tested.

Nameless recommends using the original mid pipe which is what I did.

Nameless axle back + nameless header back front pipe with high flow cat.

dyno numbers coming soon.

please let me know the numbers, I will probably be going nameless headerback>stock mid>greddy sp elite. I imagine your numbers will be slightly higher

let me know when your ready to get the midpipe. ill hook you up with a good deal :thumbsup:

Even so.....I'd feel more comfortable having a full 2.5" system haha. Can't hurt?

correct, just knowing it's there is part of the fun.

In terms of performance the stock midpipe is ok, unless you go turbo with high boost (300+hp).
The real bottlenecks are the cats on the headers and front pipe.

I feel you bro. I'm gonna contact nameless and see if they will fab me up a mid pipe when I order. If not... Well Works it is.

What material is the works pipe made from? Mild steel?

I currently have :

Borla UEL Header
FA20club Overpipe
HKS Front pipe
Greddy sp elite

The mid pipe is the only part missing.

I did not know we had this option for that. I was thinking to have one custom build.

What is your best price on this.

Send me a pm.

Do you ship to canada ?

ill PM you right now :D

aluminized steel

Seriously? Why would anyone downgrade from the oem 409 mid-pipe to aluminized pipe?

Do you have a dyno sheet for that 5-6whp gain from your Works mid-pipe?

all info here --> http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24472

as far as iv seen my oem pipe was already showing signs of corrosion. my modified pipe is till spotless

iv been running it for 8 months now

I didn't find any dyno results for just the mid-pipe but I didn't read the entire thread either. I already know that the Works mid-pipe doesn't add 5-6whp without a shitload of other VE mods.

Are you really trying to argue that aluminized pipe will outlast 409 stainless? It might last half as long.

i will not argue with you. all these are based on experience buddy.

my car is an R&D car since day 1 and i do a lot of product testing especially on exhaust systems and turbo kits

here's a graph of the midpipe with axleback. no other mods installed

most axleback gets 2-3 gains give or take. so factor that out and you get 5-6 for just the midpipe


http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...6EB4D720-1.jpg

We tested different setups. The midpipe doesn't give any power gain, as well as the rear muffler.
The only way to gain real power on this car is to work on the front pipe and the headers.

Sorry 'experienced buddy' but aluminized pipe and bogus hp claims = snake oil.

Caveat emptor.

Was going to buy, till this....why why why WHY?!?? I dont even care if it dropped 5-6 horse power and cost 100$ more, id have bought it if it was 409 or 304 stainless. Guess im back to making my own midpipe.

Better keep the stock resonator than fit some mild steel component IMHO.

First Works claim 10 hp on there drop in now 5-6 on a mid pipe. I would avoid these guys at all costs. Seems like they make up numbers or alter there dyno runs just so they can get parts sold.


2 vendors already said otherwise.

So would getting a Greddy SP elite and over/front pipe work well as other cat backs?

I've never seen so many aftermarket parts and vendors spring up out of nowhere and overnight as they have for the twins. From what I have observed... There are more crap products, BS and fake promises than there is in congress..
Just because something is shiny and has a cool name or logo doesn't make it worth buying..

Personally I think the stock midpipe isn't that restrictive.

If you look at the DSPORT exhaust shootout the Berk Technology Single tip track pipe makes the most peak power, which makes me think that the mid pipe probably isn't that bad!!!

Thanks,
Michael

What he says.

A Nameless Axleback and Front/overpipe combo costs 874 and probably cheaper since sometimes give discounts to forum members. You would only be paying about 100 dollars more for better performance and 2 parts that are made for each other rather than just a WORKS mid pipe that probably will see no gain when paired with the Nameless axleback. I dont see how the Works mid pipe would benefit the Nameless axleback. I mean theirs only so many ways you can design a mid pipe for these cars most of the gains you see from the exhaust mods are from the front/over pipe. Works claims 5-6 whp but that is with there axle back. When Nameless claimed they got no gains with the mid pipe. Also remember Works is the company who was trying to claim there drop in filter got 10 hp and refused to send one of the more popular shops/tuners a drop in to dyno for them to prove the results. They ignored that for so long and by the time people did dyno the drop in filter a ton of people have already ordered there drop in filters and payed double what they could of gotten for the same results with another brand of filter. I honestly wouldnt trust or buy from a company after something like that happened. They pushed there drop in filter really hard claiming rediculous gains and charged double of what other filters cost and probably made a killing off those claims. There was a huge thread on it that got locked or deleted and they ignored every chance that was given to them by drift office and ft86speedfactory to dyno the drop in filter they offered and made outrageous claims with. If they did make such gains dont you think sending out one filter to see those gains would increase sales even more? I could only see one reason why a vendor wouldnt want to do that and I am sure everyone else knows why they wouldnt want to send it out either when offered.

Would you trust Works claiming the gains they got on a mid pipe after they made bogus claims on there drop in filter just for the sake of sales? Nameless says they saw no gain when adding a mid pipe to there axleback. While WORKS claims they got 6 whp. Who do you think is telling the truth? Nameless has been very transparent with every step of the design process of there parts and have a great reputation on this board. I would take there word over Works when deciding which set up I would go with after that whole drop in filter fiasco.

Why not just follow there advice and get there axleback and front/over pipe like how they did when they tested. I honestly dont think you will see any gains getting the Works Mid pipe if Nameless during there R&D said they got no gains adding the mid pipe to there axle back. No other vendor has been so straightforward with such information and IMO you would just be wasting money when you can get way better gains/performance going with there over/front pipe combo and there axle back. They did this to save customers money since there was no benefit of adding the mid pipe. For how much the Works mid pipe costs you would only have to pay a little more for Nameless 2 parts that would perform great together since they were made and tested for each other. You at least will know what type of performance gains you will be getting with Nameless as they already did dyno's on the Over/front pipe with there axleback.

I think they released a mid pipe or plan to in the future though recently for people who would rather have one just for piece of mind. IMO your much better off getting an exhaust that is a complete system from the headers back to the axle back. Whether your getting it piece of piece or all together as one.

take there dyno's with a grain of salt. Remember when they tried to push there drop in filter claiming 10 hp and when other vendors offered to dyno it if they sent one over they ignored them.

I personally wouldnt buy a thing from Works for this reason. Just look at what they make there exhaust parts out of and for what they charge. Nameless has kept this community involved the whole way of the design of there exhaust system whereas Works just releases a single dyno showing us what the final product is. For all we know this could be the worse stock run compared to the best run with the mid pipe.

When a vendor like Nameless and other say the mid pipe provides no gains and you see a vendor like Works who tried to make rediculous claims on a drop in filter and charge double just for the sake of sales. Who would you trust/listen/buy from.

This isnt the first time they have made bogus claims. Theres a reason why there Works drop in filter thread got locked. It would of stayed open if they would of just let someone dyno there drop in filter instead of ignoring. Giving away 1 filter to dyno to prove your claims will sell 100 more. Lots of companies do this when they stand behind a product. When a company doesnt want to send a filter away because they would be losing money doesnt make sense when they would make more back from the free advertising. That is a huge red flag right there. Why claim those gains then when someone offers to dyno it for you you refuse. Its obvious they knew it wouldnt of made such gains. Look at Airaid.. they sold a bunch of intakes before anyone dyno tested it and made a killing. They even showed us a dyno but most vendors are lying pieces of shit who show bogus dyno's for the sake of sales. And Works claiming 6 whp for there mid pipe IMO is full of shit when you got other companies who are well respected on these forums saying otherwise.

found this which has pretty good explanation on exhaust although the article itself is about building an exhaust
www.mikekemper.com/elantra/diyexhaust/
some may have seen this already in another thread :)