Sportsguy's AVO Turbo experience, the Good the Bad and the Ugly
 

For a background and more details/explanation on my Turbo Kit install, please visit my Build Thread.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7...0/IMAG0783.jpg

Warnings:

1) This is not a THIS vs. THAT thread. This is MY personal experience, opinions and facts on how my turbo install went from hardware installation, culminating with Dyno Tuning.

2) This is NOT a thread meant to crucify vendors. I had my fair share of great experiences with all vendors involved with my FI car.

3) My issues might very well be an isolated case, who knows... My only intent is to share with everyone all the things that can and will happen when you decide to modify a car.


Part 1: AVO Kit hardware install:

PROS:

Avo kit install was fairly simple when compared to the average Turbo Kit install. It was a big plus not needing to drill the Oil Pan. Instructions are well written except for some minor blemishes in which a picture is not clear enough or you don't know which exact part is needed. (DISCLAIMER: Instructions might have been updated since my install as i was one of the first ones at least in the forums).

This was my first turbo install and it is doable. It requires time, patience and commitment, but it can be done by the mechanically inclined individual. Oil and water cooling lines for the Turbo are very easy to install.

Paul Hansen is an awesome individual. He helped me quickly everytime I had a question and was ready to send me new tunes even when it was trial and error for different injectors I had installed. Customer service is top notch.

I have no complains as far as power delivery.

CONS:

Exhaust manifold flanges were a bit warped on the motor side. To this day I have a very small exhaust leak because of it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p...0/IMAG0598.jpg

Lining up the turbo discharge pipe to the overpipe was a B*TCH and then some... The Overpipe was hitting the frame no matter what was tried to make it fit. To this date, it sits SUPER close to the frame and if the RPM's dip enough when the AC is on, it actually rattles on the frame. IMHO and after months of analyzing it, it seems like the Turbo discharge pipe is not lined up properly or is longer than it should be which pushes the angle of the Overpipe farther back and thus hitting the frame.

Here are some pics:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A...2/IMAG0688.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...2/IMAG0687.jpg

The low position of the turbo makes it a PITA to work on the turbo. I had a small leak on the turbo fitting and it was almost impossible to tighten that fitting a mere half turn.

As far as installing AVO stage 1 kit goes, thats it.


Now, I did install various supporting mods. I won't go into many details, but for those interested here is the Issues with Fuel Pump Install Thread

AND

Installing Motor Mounts can be a B*TCH


I also had issues installing Robispec Version 1 Radiator, it just would not fit.

Full Blown Motor sent me a radiator to test fit with AVO and it didn't fit either. I am still looking for a solution that will work with AVO's thick Intercooler. (Robispec thinks his solution work with some custom AC condenser to radiator brackets, it sounds logical and I believe that way FBM should also fit, I just will not be the test mule anymore. Waiting for someone else to try it :D)

Just because when it rains it pours, FBM Oil Cooler would not work out of the box because I have Perrin CAI and it interferes/ runs too close to the area where the oil lines should be routed.


In general all my other mods were fairly easy and straight forward with the usual hiccups that happen when working as a mechanic.

Part 2: Initial drive, initial tunes:

I have ALWAYS considered the Tune the MOST important part of seriously making power and modifying your car. It will play a HUGE part in wether you blow it in pieces, have a nice drive and wether all the money spent will actually produce what it should.


Having said that, I RUSHED Paul @ AVO to get me a kit in order to have Visconti tune it ASAP. Initially Paul was kind enough to try and send me some tunes to get me running even though he did not have the calibration for the SIR 500cc Injectors. As far as JV I had already contacted him and wanted to run his tune on my car. I knew from the start I was going to have to wait a bit but was fine with it.

I have some videos on My YOUTUBE CHANNEL showing initial startup and runs.

The first 3-4 logs where wasted because of ongoing issues with the Fuel Pump. John started e-tuning my car with mixed results. Sometimes I got a file that felt good, but popped an CEL for Rich (some other times for Lean). Not a big deal or deal breaker, but worried me a bit considering how high in my priorities list is having a PROPER TUNE.

I cannot say I had much problems getting in contact with John. He usually answered the phone extremely quick and was willing to help with whatever I requested quickly.

As time passed and I continued doing logs for John to tweak my file in anticipation for a final Dyno Day, I grew impatient. I kept receiving logs with little to no improvement. Sometimes the logs came out worse than before and worse the before last. The car hesitated to go, logs showed a good amount of knock values, AFR was pig rich. Again, all of this was done with the hope of a Dyno Day to finalize a safe, PROPER Tune.

In total, I flashed 16 E-tune files before getting on a Dyno.

Here are the last four E-tunes Logs Knock Correction values:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f...2520%25231.PNG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f...2520%25231.PNG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1...2520%25232.PNG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H...2520%25234.PNG

I contacted John letting him know that I needed this car dyno tuned already, that it had been 2 and a half months of playing Russian Roulette with the most important part of the modification process. The response I got was a vague approximate date that was never met, even though I waited almost double the timeframe given before moving on.

The Last Straw:

The last straw happened when I was cruising one day, heard something strange, turned off radio and A/C just to notice that my car was LOUDLY knocking at cruising speeds. I literally feared damaging my engine with these tunes, I stopped using the car. If it weren't for the fact that I DONT Daily Drive my car, I would have lost it... That day I had it. I realized how stupid it was for me to keep waiting.

Part 3: FINALLY DYNO TUNED!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4...0/IMAG1007.jpg

(What else did you expect?? Florida Rainy day FTW!!!:mad0260::mad0260:)

I started doing my research again from ZERO between all available tuners. I noticed how after the initial wave of the mythical ECUTek groupbuy, things have changed.

I kept reading and reading so much happy Tony customers. I kept looking at the Dyno charts for his kit, N/A tunes, E85 tunes and other kits tunes. I met him personally at a meet and came away so impressed by the type of individual he is. Humble guy. Down to earth. No BS or Unicorn seller. Just get the job done type of guy.

So I made plans with @King Tut to have our Dyno day together, as ever since the FL Mega Meet we have been closely working together helping each other out (well mostly him mentoring me but you all get the idea :D) and it was only fitting to have our cars finalized same date same time while also helping us understand the difference between two nice FI kits.

Date was set for July 12th. When you first install a FI kit, you believe your car is a rocket, such an improvement over stock. After a few days reality started setting in for me and I started noticing something was not right. When Dyno day arrived I had butterflies in my stomach because ALL along I always feared my engine had something wrong because from the way it felt and how the car ran I KNEW I was not making near the power the AVO kit is capable of.

Lo and behold, It was NOT. Please check the below Dyno Charts:

First, how I got there and how I left:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y...0run%25202.jpg


Secondly, all runs together minus final one.


Run 2: John's E-tune #16, 10.5 PSI
Run 8 FA20CLUB Dyno tune after trying my specific configuration for the first time ever, 10.5 PSI
Run 9 just a bit more tweaking from Toni, same 10.5 PSI
Run 10, second to last run, Boost upped to 12 psi

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2...%2520Graph.jpg

So after this my hand went a bit overboard and I adjusted the MBC a bit too much. Hit 16 psi :confused0068:, Tony's boost cut saved the day :D

Two final runs, Red @ 12 psi, Blue @ 14 psi.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J...wer%25202.jpgg

I turned the boost down to 13 psi for street use.

Some notes about this numbers before girls get their panties in a bunch:

I AM HAPPY WITH them and don't care if you are not :D
As you can see in the Final Graph, day was HAWT.
At the end of the day, I love how my car drives, sounds and performs.
Not only is the power increase amazing over my previous E-tune, but the driveability aspects of it are like having a completely different car.
Knock is GONE
The motor runs SMOOTH as butter, before it was very rough
I can actually cruise, before there was no middle ground. Either it builded boost even if you did not intend it to, or you were going painfully slow.

The ONLY issue left to correct is the SIR 500cc injector scaling. Hopefully it gets working properly soon. Not a huge deal, as the car starts everytime, just rough when its already hot.

Part 4: DYNO Video and Final Thoughts


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgO6haRVdE"]BRZ AVO Turbo Kit Stage 2+ Dyno run - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhF75cDgC4"]BRZ AVO Turbo 300 WHP 240 WTQ Dyno run #2 - YouTube[/ame]

Conclusion:

It is VERY important for all forum members to understand that installing a FI kit is not lilies and roses. It can be painful, hard, nerve wrecking and requires a good amount of $$ to get it right. There is a big bunch of mods that go around a FI kit that while not all of them are absolutely necessary, all work together to REALLY finalize a proper car build.

DONT be afraid to ask questions and make sure you understand everything, because there are some mistakes that just can't be undone.

If I had to do it again and in hindsight with what is available now, it wold be a painfully HARD decision but I THINK I would have chosen AVO again. The reason is when I initially chose AVO, I had certain goals for the car, and even though they changed as I modified it, AVO is still within them. I still love my AVO. Its an awesome kit, well made, easy to install and with great power delivery characteristics. I don't regret my decision one bit as I am VERY HAPPY with how my build came out.

Happy modding FT86 club. I hope my trial and errors help some members to avoid them.


Edit: Photo Shoot teaser??? Photo Shoot teaser! :D

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4...4/IMAG1010.jpg

Thread is live!

http://troll.me/images/frankenstein-.../its-alive.jpg

glad everything worked out for you. most important your happy with the car its not all about power but when you get both its even sweeter.

i didnt know what to expect when i first met you but you were easy going and seemed like you genuinely liked building up the community organizing meets etc. i never tried to sell you on my services and i never do to anyone i just stay busy working and it all seems to come together for everyone. i dont care if its my kit avo fbm vortech innovate im here to get the job done.

and as always you guys know ill be here for any help you need its not just locals who benefit.

Good to hear it's finally running the way it should! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

:popcorn::thanks:

Same issue here. I literally am in my garage right now with my overpipe off. I am going nuts as it just vibrates and clangs on the frame too much. I am not happy. I am going to try to air hammer in around the area that is hitting, if that doesnt work, then i will be taking the overpipe to a shop to have them cut a notch and weld it up.

In my opinion, AVO needs to correct the connection angle. Sounds like its hapenning to others as well. The bigger problem with this is not even the noise, but the failure aspect. Whats happening is that the contact/force on the overpipe is actually causing the turbo to be pried up and i can see it failing soon under hard driving.

This is the reason i am actually not risking it and going to cut a notch/dent in my overpipe. Rather damage the pipe, than the turbo.

I think there has not been as many issues yet, because the few that do have the avo kit are probably with stock overpipe. Which of course is smaller, so a bit more room for this alignment error.

The other problem i have had is that many parts are pre-assembled on the headers/turbo. After running it a bit, i have found a few places that bolts were just not too tight, and are leaking oil.

I have more thoughts, ideas and solutions and will be elaborating more on my build thread.

I cant wait to see it in person.

Was awesome to see this in person!! Great build bro!!

Here is a video I shot of one of your runs...this one you hit 300 HP but boost was cut after turning it up a hair too much ;)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bktI8RxKduU"]300 HP AVO Turbo BRZ - YouTube[/ame]

awesome @Sportsguy83. the car has come along so far since i 1st saw it at rev works. what supporting mods to u have for the turbo BTW? jus wanna make sure i got it all b4 i try and turbo. i know exhaust, motor mounts, clutch, (maybe) transmission mount

It's incredible how similar our issues were/are!!

Yes sir!!

Thanks!! That run was funny/scary/hilarious. I almost shit my pants....

Thanks David for posting that up. I am not one to normally post in these forums, and have been a member for over 6 months now. After reading your post I had to share my experience so far with @FA20Club.com.

I have basically been emailing Tony back and forth for the last few months (sorry for the million questions Tony) on his turbo kit and after looking at all the other options and doing my research both locally and online, eventually Tony convinced me to put a deposit down on one of his T3/T4 kits only just yesterday.

Your comments with regard to his professionalism and quick replies are spot on.

Now I just have to play the waiting game for my kit to arrive and hope that it all goes relatively smoothly with the install then logging and etuning :)

Cheers

Nathan

My mod list is in the OP of the build thread, but if you are asking me which are ABSOLUTELY necessary, Catch Can, Mounts if going 250+ WTQ, Fuel, Clutch, Gauges, Boost Controller.

Be honest about your driving habits and then maybe brake pads, lines, fluid ( no need for BBK unless yo plan on tracking hard), suspension.

If you plan to track it hard, plan on hit it on the street at 90+ degrees with no mercy, oil and water cooling.

We are not the only two installs with this issue. It has happened quite a few times. Usually people are afraid to bash their purchases, but I get PM's with lots of questions and experiences.

Other people just decide to take care of it on their own, never even alerting the manufacturer.

Hmmm. That alone could be the issue you guys are seeing ~ a lowered set of mounts might make the difference in the overpipe contacting the cross member... All our setups only used the stock mounts.


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

ok thats what i figured. but do u really need a boost controller for set boost? like ur perrin one or a digital one i mean

I wish you would let me have my review and experience with my car and not try to justify in what ways it was my fault....

It happened with stock mounts and Perrin mounts....

electronic is best, if you want set boost with WG Spring don't need it.

Please, point me exactly to the exact sentence where I said or even implied I was the ONLY point of contact for AVO questions....

Really.... don't even bother.

Hey I'm glad your car is now where you want it to be and you pretty much met the goal u wanted when we talked last .. It was good seeing you again and meeting @kingtut and hope we can all get together with all the frs family minus that dam dog at the dyno :/ ... @FA20Club.com for the win yet again woooooooo lol enjoy and drive safe

LMAO at the dog hahaha!

We should get together again soon!!

the amount of free advertising we all give toni is insane lol

Hahah that's what happen when u have his products/tunes you get excited
You just want to share and tell the world lol

So true! I had issues with my SC at first. cranked, then cut off immediately. then wouldn't stay running. turned out a hose had come lose. Scared the crap out of me, thought i'd ruined my car. Did the test drive, felt awesome, but I could feel some issues. Felt like it was bogging down some, so I did some logs, and sent them off to FA20club.

and it looks like i'm not the only one annoying tony. :p

:thumbup:o ya. i want some dam fa20club decals

@FA20Club.com look what ppl also want :thumbup:

Great job Tony BTW. :)

Yes Bob, it was my fault for installing it on jack stands in my garage and the only two people with the issue are me and @gdrider77 because we are lazy asses and installed ourselves, didn't use a lift or pay a "professional" to install it....
Ok there you have it. Happy???? Yes? Good! now go sleep well.






P.S.

(Nevermind that I TOOK IT TO A SHOP after I couldn't get it fixed at home and that shop ON A LIFT :thumbsup: had to HAMMER my Overpipe because it would just NOT clear the frame...)

Same to you Bob...Just because i have my own products doesnt means i dont tune the competition to run great as well. I dont play favorites when it comes to the tuning. On monday should have our FBM tunes posted as well from this week.

:respekt: you changing the game man!! Shit I might get another frs and do it all over again !! Great experience

There's been talk about doing one of your kits here. Like I tell all my customers and like you, we're equal-opportunity installers. Doing a Vortech setup now, and looks like someone else came thru with an Innovate kit too! :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

posts*

You learn something new everyday Bob, so here is your lesson of the day!

I am the SE Region moderator (as my title states right below my name :D).

That means that I am not able to modify, delete, move, create etc.. ANYTHING outside of the SE region. So no, I can't touch these threads (posts). :wrongforum:

but u can both delete ur own posts....

Its ok, won't be the first or last thread to go to shit here lately. It's all good.

There is valuable info in the first 4 posts. That's good enough for me :happy0180:

I love how In the beginning alot ppl were at the 8psi range and 10psi was like OMG alot of boost and now everyone is at 12psi and pushing it higher and higher lol slowly but surely I thought is never get past 10 without doing crazy work just saying

I am having the issue right now with my stock mounts. have not upgraded those yet.

The over pipe i have is a FA20club pipe. I have also tried a Perrin pipe i had access to and same alignment issue.

My local friend did as well.

Not trying to start anything here, but for sake of argument and to clarify. I did the install in my own garage, with jack stands. When i had it tuned, the shop noticed the issue and they were the original ones to point it out to me on the lift. They air hammered it slightly, and even went as far as to remove it completely and reinstall. So technically it was installed on both jack stands and on a lift. And problem is there from both times.

Once again, not trying to start anything, just stating that it was there both in garage and shop under different circumstances. In the shop they tried a different (perrin) pipe that they had to rule out the pipe i had, and same issue. So that led us to believe it was more in the angle of the turbo discharge pipe causing the problem.

Just trying to get information out for others to be informed, not to bash anything or anyone.