HELP a fellow owner out.
 

Alight guys. First of excuse the name just on this site to find information out:D

I am looking to achieve 220 WHP with out FI ( WAIT WAIT WAIT let me back up and explane why i live in the united kingdom:( and i have 2 options of FI 1st AVO turbocharger 2nd Lichfield supercharger. AVO seems to be a great way to go but i am not 100 % confident in the tuning cause we dont have nothing on you guys when it comes to experience simply cause there are not a lot of ours cars on the road in the UK. The market just dosent seem to be great at this moment in time.

So back to the Start yes 220 is there any possible way it can be done IE: weight reduction,exhaust( header back with new headers,intake,drive shaft, final gear,ECUtek tune, pulleys.

Please dont be to harsh if i seem to not have the experience that you guys do i am learning and quite fast at that. One last thing with FI i know how a supercharger works as well as a turbo but what is the more reliable one to go for im thinking Supercharger can i have your suggestions and why you chose what you did.

Thank you.:burnrubber:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78

:)

Filter/Exhaust/Header would get you what, 15HP? Seems like a good starting point.

Tune and E85.


Personally i'm staying NA because turbos are more common then Honda Accords. However i do feel that in the future with built engine internals we can pull more power without forced induction, but not just yet.

A tune with E85 wouldent get you 50hp. You think?

Where did 220hp come from? I mean a headerback, intake and tune will get you close I bet. Add lightened pulleys for better response and light wheels and tires and I think you would have a good, responsive DD. If your still not happy get some cams, PnP, and a valve job to let it breath better.

Yea man its a good start just ordered all my modifications that aren't performance orientated and it was so had to not order it all.

Just seems to be a good number i would want to be at with out FI i willl go down the route one day just not yet. Sorry but what is PnP? :lol:

Ya i wanna see a good na build, not everyone wants turbo...

Thats what i am going for just want a good bit more power but more importantly want it to handel better.:burnrubber:

Intake, headers, exhaust, TUNE. that should get you fairly close. If you want 220whp NA, that's another story.. I'd imagine that will take a ton of work.

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No it won't get you 50HP, but it'll get you more then an exhaust and an intake.

Port and polish, the heads that is. Not big gains to be made but on an NA build it will help.

Also I don't know if you guys have e85, but water/achy injection could help as well. But it can cause massive issues with failure.

Stickers. They put down mad HP.

yea it will indeed :happyanim:

No but fule is 100% octane we really do have one of the best fules out there bit it come at a price of 1.49 per liter give or take .5 :confused0068::cry:

Thats just not what i want to hear :cry: .With a good tune and header back (not including custom headers ) i can get 25/30 then i was thinking pulleys,carbon fiber driveshaft,Cusco throttle body, and final gear and lots of weight reduction :burnrubber: thats got to get me there.

You can start with not touching the internals:

- Headers
- Over pipe/front pipe
- Axleback/catback exhaust
- Cold Air Intake
- Lighter pulleys?
- ECUTek or Unichip tune

Weight reduction can include the rear seats delete kits, going for carbon products (hood, trunk, etc.)

I'm not sure about the horsepower gains but you're not getting very good results without FI, but since you're persistent on going without FI I suggest building the motor and I'm sure you'll see pleasurable horsepower gains.

\
\Thanks if you were to go with FI would you go turbo or supercharger for reliability ?

Well, I have really long commutes with my 86 (talking about 88 miles 4 days a week) so for reliability a supercharger is of course better because it's not as painful as a turbo setup. However, for better horsepower output, more fun and nearly every other benefit a supercharger has a turbocharged setup is the way to go.

In other words, if your car is a daily drive and you don't want fuel-cuts, spark-cuts, rich fuel, re-tuning every day, bla bla bla bla meaning a headache then go for a supercharger since it would be installed, tuned and voila.

It's really hard to choose between them if you're going for reliability as a main concern, but to answer your question for reliability and less time in the garage and having the car stopped because something is not working properly or broken then an hks supercharger would do just fine however, if you want good horsepower gains, hear a turbo spool/bov on every gear change and actually be a japanese car enthusiast then of course turbo!

I had so many projects and I've never went through a supercharged setup so I might be biased a bit.

Yea i completely understand what you are saying but do you not think supercharger would make for a better street car?

Considering seeing the HKS 86, I think it would do sooooo much better with a setup like crawford's brz. In fact any other 86/FRS/BRZ would do so much better.

I guess it just personal taste :thumbup: but crawford's brz is to much it cant get the power down and breaks all the time i wouldent go that far but it is :w00t:

Intake
header back exhaust
polished intake and exhaust runners
cams
valves & valve springs
larger injectors
E85
tune
higher redline (9k rpms?)

you'll loose some low end but eh who cares lol

EDIT my last car had 220whp - 230whp (depending on the dyno) from a 1.8L engine 220 whp should not be something hard to get on this car, biggest thing no one has really done is cams... so we can wait and see or you can do it...

9k at redline it that just not a grenade :party0030:

high redline and things you have to worry about (this is to consider with the above supporting mods)

1. oil pump grenading (this was a problem on my old car, no signs of considerable wear, the pump gear would just blow up from centrifugal forces)

2. cylinders falling apart from g-forces (get forged pistons with similar cup designs, mahle does a pretty good job mimicking the OEM style)

I would just do a filter. Seems like an actual intake is useless for the money. I see air filters yield same gains and cost $50 compared to $350.

Just my thought.

Now Im no expert, however:

The thing is that the car is a 2 liter high compression motor making 200bhp which equals 100hp per liter. To the wheels, the car makes ~160 depending on location, elevation etc etc. A FULL exhaust from the header back I have seen gain almost 20whp with a tune. An intake/filter will get you another 3-5 maybe.

That being said, just with bolt ons and a tune, you're looking about 180-190whp. That's the equivalent of how much at the crank? Around 230bhp? That's 215hp per liter which is almost as much as the F20C motor in the S2000. That's pretty impressive in my opinion. By working the internals a bit, I'm sure you could squeeze out another 10 or so whp but I'm not sure.

E85 tune is honestly the best bet. I've seen dyno results where people a making 200whp+ just on intake, catback and E85 tune.

As I've previously mentioned, break-downs on turbos are often especially on new cars that haven't been thoroughly tested and not many projects have been done on them so either FI paths are risky.

Yea man your quite right just had a look/read at your build the tire has sen better days :burnrubber: :thumbup: you gotta this car its just great

Just my .02

With the NA build that will be money and I personally don't see the point in doing that if you are going FI in the future. I feel you would be better off with just the simple bolt-ons and a tune. After that suspension work and lighten the car a bit.

Consider this fact:
A friend of mine tracks this car and he stayed NA. He blew his motor. Now from what I have heard these boxer engines aren't too reliable (but I guess that depends on driving habits).

Now the goals are probably achievable but IF it is your only car I wouldn't rag on it so much. Good luck with your build though and if you are trying to get good power and you know you are going FI in the future, wait it out. Bolt-ons and a tune and be happy

Boxers in general or just the FA20? And honestly that is the first person I really heard who blew a stock motor beyond the issues that were common to the early release cars.

Now of the 2 people I know personally who went turbo, one blew his motor and the other is still having oil issues 4 months later (still R&D stage I guess as I don't think that specific tuner/shop is selling their own kit yet).

Boxer engines are highly reliable, i think its more user error then manufacturing/design error

Yeah these motors are pretty stout. Either driver error or shit tuning in my opinion.

Ehh it can be a number of factors. I personally think it might have been driver related but idk. In my experience I have always heard of problems and I know specific tuners like to stay away from those motors. I just know what I want out of this car

I am sure these blocks are fine but it just leaves one to wonder how much abuse they can stand up to because everybody has different driving habits

Have you been for a ride? Or even better, driven one? :party0030:

The problem with NA power on this car is that the compression ratio is already pretty high and we're only getting 200hp at the crank.

I assume you want to get to 220 whp?

IF that is the case you will need to gain roughly +55 whp (220-165=55) to your vehicle without FI.

This will be hard to achieve, however, you can get close to 220. I have created a similar thread in the past and this is what I learned along the way. Consider these options/estimates:

• ECUTek Tune, Stage 2 from FA20Club.com = +20 whp
• Exhaust + Header + CAI = +15-25 whp (roughly)

Those 4 items would cost you at a minimum, $2500 (not including cost of labor) for +40 whp.



So, essentially, you can estimate a +40 whp gain while still keeping the car naturally aspirated. This would put you at 205 whp approx.
---------------
Going the forced induction kit route could cost you at a minimum $5,500+ (not including labor) for gains anywhere between +75 whp (5-7psi) to +185 whp (8-12 psi).


Again your location also plays a big role in how much power you can gain from your car. Certain factors like climate/temperature and elevation play a role too.



Hope that helps and sorry if I am not roughly accurate.

Are you asking if i have rode or driven a turbo 86? No i havent
I just want a bit more power and keep the response with no turbo lag, for a dd i dont want turbo cause i know i have bad self control and i be wasting a ton more gas. If i retire my car from dd duties i wouldnt mind turbo cause i be driving it less but that wont be for years.
And of course its way harder to make power in NA thats why i wanna see a good build, na builds usually cost way more and you dont even come close to FI power with the same money put in.

Tuners are iffy on this car because of d4s, not the engine. In terms of what they can take maybe read up or ask people like Evasive Motorsports or FT86 Speed Factory about it. They both have cars they drive the piss out of on the track on what I think are stock internals. Im not saying your wrong but I think it may be putting questions into peoples heads that aren't really true.

For a DD I would recommend a supercharger. But when I take my car out for a drive it's pretty easy to drive. From NC to MD I got an average of 27 mpg. Around town with me getting on it pretty good from time to time I get 24-25mpg. And turbo lag on this set up basically none. Seriously.

But as @forzajuve just posted, look at the money to hp ratio.

Lol your getting way better mpg then me with turbo compared to my few bolt ons, but here in canada we have shit gas best i can get is 91 no ethanol, but good to know that the turbo doesnt lag much. What kit are you using?