Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger Discussion
 

I searched and apparently Kraftwerks doesn't love us enough to create a post on the popular 86 forum... I found this post on a BRZ forum:

http://www.**************.com/10-sub...er-system.html
(apparently i cant type the url that has the words subaru brz forum in it)
Showing their build of a rotrex based supercharger setup for the 86 platform.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2Urx1GkZvx...0/KW_FRS_3.jpg

I would assume this will come out very simliar to the litchfield setup. However they show a mounting plate that is shifted off center to the driver side which would allow a cold pipe to be on the passenger side instead of over the oil filter like the litchfield setup (which is really odd!)

Litchfield placement:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1357826903

Kraftwerks placement:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-G_O9lfUAsP...0/KW_FRS_1.jpg

Hopefully this comes out nicely. Their honda kits have shown decent numbers in the past. Maybe we can get them to start posting updates on ft86club as well on their progress! I'll send them an email and see if they can get more info. :)

Misc pics stolen from their other thread:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rf7-ooYZOU...BRZ_KWSC_1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0v7Q9ZbkyM...BRZ_KWSC_2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YcyKXlbBI3...BRZ_KWSC_5.jpg

I know there is a lot of disagreement over vortech vs rotrex, lets try to keep that out of here (unless its purely educational!).

Thanks for sharing.

It looks similar to the Litchfield kit:
http://www.litchfieldblog.co.uk/?p=1933

Rotex is centrifugal

Ah you know what... i dont know what to call the difference between Rotex and Vortech's gear implementation. What would be the proper thing to say? I went ahead and edited the post saying vortech.

Yeah thats how i ran into it actually. I was looking up the litchfield kit and then ran into the thread from kraftwerks. The litchfield looks like it would be really annoying when doing your oil change!

Because its hard to remove a hose clamp?

FWIW: Kraftwerks site lists planned release date as August 2013. And my understanding is that Kraftwerks = Jackson Racing (same company).

Just check out the little logo before the names before you jump at me

A Rotrex uses planetary gears, and a Vortech uses helical gears.

Vortech
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...600px_1194.jpg

Rotrex
http://www.progl.com/Specifications/rotrex%20gears.JPG

Kraftwerks was started by people at jackson racing & skunk2 but afaik they dont have any relation any more, they are separate companies. Not to mention the fact that skunk2 & kraftwerks have identical websites, hosted on the same server. (because they are both owned by Group-A Autosports

All the references to jackson racing don't seem to be on kraftwerk's website any more i tried googling really quick. All I could find were old articles about them working together but nothing recent.

@Subzero thanks! I knew the difference in gearing but i hadn't the slightest idea what they were called!

It looks like they're using a second belt instead of just a longer one.

Possible pros, more packaging flexibility.

Possible cons, more rotational mass.

Just an observation. This is probably a good thing, especially looking through the hole above the rad. The intake pipe couldn't be any straighter.

will this mean no torque like vortech?

The Rotrex will ramp up the boost faster than the Vortech.

Here is the dyno from my DIY custom Rotrex powered 1zzfe MR-S.

http://carpron.com/multisite/d/19440...o_022008_2.jpg

For those too lazy to click here is the litchfield dyno:
http://www.litchfieldblog.co.uk/imag...d-vs-Stock.jpg

I'd imagine with similar piping, they will likely put down similar numbers (note their dyno reads high). I signed up for updates with litchfield probably 6 months ago and haven't seen anything. I know they've been running around with it on their car for a while.

So stoked :)

You'd be shocked how much torque the vortech cars have. I got my first ride in one yesterday, shocked the hell out of me. I'm generally not a fan of centrifugals but that thing was strong down low and had major top end. But yes, it'll build boost (and torque) like a vortech.

I believe the litchfield setup has changed slightly since those pics. They're at the ring testing it at the moment and the pipework is definitely different:


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...24946192_n.jpg

I drove one after already having my AVO kit.. It's incredibly mild down low. It felt very close to the stock car. Packs a punch at higher RPM's but down low, it left a lot to be desired (For my tastes).

I can echo that. It has a little more grunt than stock, builds very linear, and around 6k you can really start to feel the boost factor and then it's time to shift. I'd need more seat time but it didn't blow me away. Very clean kit and a great reputation for reliability.

Hmm pipe work looks different to me... Though i cant wait to see finished results! They need to get a thread up here too!

Of course when you compare it to a tiny little turbo the turbo has more torque under 4-5k, but to say it has 'no torque' is incorrect. They are considerably stronger than stock across the rev range.

Awesome to see Kraftwerks developing a kit. I was wondering when/if they would pop up with the Rotrex. Very exciting!

Conveniently right as so many of us are installing Vortech's haha! Hopefully it comes out nice compared to their honda setups.

I didn't say it has "No" torque. It also has nothing to do with with a "tiny little" turbo as I've been a passenger of a FBM kit, FA20Club kit and again, the Vortech is very mild until 5-6K RPMS are reached. Yes, it is better than stock, no it does not feel strong when compared to basically almost any other of the currently offered FI kits below 6K RPMS.

It's not supposed to outperform turbos, centrifugal superchargers can't be expected to. My point was just that it make plenty more torque down low than a stock car, in response to a guy who said it made 'no torque'. That is wrong. No one was comparing it to a turbo.

Ok, fair point. I didn't mean to discredit or argue your point. I just wanted to share my experience with the Vortech kit. It was my bad for quoting you in the first place. :thumbup:

ANDDDDD....


Back on topic :D

My guess is that its the difference between prototype and production. They might not had the right bends available for the prototype and went with a straight section to test with until they could develop something more user friendly.

I just hope they use a unit that can be utilized at higher rpms. The Vortech unit would be on the verge of losing its warranty with an 8k rev limit and one size smaller pulley.

I've heard so many good things about the JRSC on the K20. Guys hitting nearly 500whp.

If the setup is well built and reliable I might pick one up. I really like the Vortech kit, but I still think 300whp needs to be attainable rather easily. And it doesn't look like the Vortech will hit that goal without E85 or too much boost imo.

My only gripe with the pics above, is it looks like they are using a pull-thru maf configuration. I do like the Vortech blow-thru setup better.

I've been out of the RSX scene for a while, but I only ever saw one guy break 400whp (it was around 425 I think) and he swapped his JRSC to a HUGE Lysholm unit and was pushing close to 20psi

I'm waiting to see what these guys come up with before I plunk down on either an S/C or a turbo. I just hope it happens fairly quickly!

New info from website! Pricing!
http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/kraftwerks-brz.htm

They don't have any info on HP/Torque, but they do have pricing up and appear to be taking deposits. I'm hopeful this system will prove more powerful than Innovate or Vortech.

Good eye.

$3695 without tuning. Deposit is non-refundable unless the SC hasn't shipped by 12/1.

No exact dyno numbers, but they did provide this:

Interesting bracket. I wish I could see more in the engine bay pic. It looks like they are using an oil cooler but you can't really see what brand it is or how the lines are run. It definitely looks cramped.

http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/media...t/e/temp_1.jpg

http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/media...t/e/temp02.jpg

http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/media...t/e/temp03.jpg

I wonder how this will stack up against the soon to be released Jackson Racing Rotrex kit.

Not even going to wait and see how it compares to the Jackson Racing kit when it releases any day now?

The fit and finish of the JRSC will make it or break it for me. Should just bolt up not bending or cutting.

Kit looks niceeee. I'm impressed.

The dyno plot is fairly impressive, but it would be nice to see some independent results.

How hot does that compressor get? Seems awful close to the oil filter.

Nothing is stopping someone from running 12miljillion RPM, and just run a bigger pully, but you will run into the same issue with this one. Say it's max rev is 70,000 and it develops 14 psi @max impeller speed. Well there's gonna be the people who find the pully that maxes it at 7400, then there's gonna be the turds that complain that they will lose their warranty if they run that pully with a 8k redline, kinda like what you just did...

I also believe vortech just realeased an upgrade path to a 65,000 max rpm from 53,000, for all those turds that had the 2.87 pully and wanted to raise there redline to 9k.