Keep the rear cat that's in the front pipe. Mine has no odor w/ catless RW UEL header.

Catted PL header...Ive been eye balling those for a while now.

I think however that the engineers that designed this car are limited by various government regulations, the epa, etc to produce a header that is quiet, and tune it so the cats last a while. If they were given free reign with no restrictions to produce a header that is solely for power with no thought to anything else, the design would be much different.

If that were the case, none of the aftermarket companies would be able to hold a candle to what they would produce. Unfortunately this is far from the way it works today.

Catless headers don't stink if you have a cat in the front pipe. If I could clarify, go catless on the header but KEEP a cat in the front pipe.

(Ran catless longtube headers for years on my LS1 with cats in the front pipes and I don't get any nasty smell)

OK. I meant full catless setup. If front-pipe cat is enough to prevent horrible smell - it could be an option.

Yeah, all catless I am not a fan of at all. Not only does it sound like crap, it does really smell awful. Those Civic catless fart cans I just want to hold my ears.

Catless can sound great and I don't even know what this smell is that you speak of. My 08 XB was catless, with a 2.5" downpipe into 3" with a long 7" resonator then tapering to 2.5" before dumping into a 2.5" TRD axle-back. Greg @ Mandrel Bending Solutions did all the hard work.


[ame]http://youtu.be/QKNIDL7c_24[/ame]

I ran catless on my wrx and yes it smells a bit like an ATV or 50's/60's classic car...
To me that's not a bad thing. The sound is just because of cheap exhaust. Not catless.

Rasp is really set-up dependent. With all the parts out now, there are probably over 500 combinations you can have.

I've heard the cheap E-bay J2 cat back exhaust/catless non resonated front-pipe/Borla headers that probably sounded the best from hours of forum digging and youtube searching. Sad, I know.

Even with a catted front pipe, I hear rasp all the time. I know Youtube does no justice, but start attending 86 meets locally and listen to it your self.

I got lucky with my Invidia N1 cat back/Invidia catless front pipe setup that sounds beastly, but I have a feeling if I get my UEL headers it may rasp. Unfortunately no one has this setup with headers yet. Just waiting for my guinea pig..

This is 100% Not true, I have Actual dyno's before and after the header install and there is a Big difference.

I know some companies did not find much power with their header design, but some others did.

Simmons

This is 100% true,..... a lot of products out there make little to no gains and some loose power,.....my point was to spend money else where till this engine has been around longer. Designing a header that actually makes substantial gains is practically an art, through trial and error,...its a lot of work,....I don't see it yet to the point its worth the price......just my opinion.

You do realize headers have been made for years and years for many cars, yes? I highly doubt they lose power, especially when its already been proven to increase power even without a tune.

It's really simple math, when you increase flow, you gain power. How can you argue that?

I can name at least 5 companies that have proven gains in their designs so far.

How much power do you expect for the price?

Here is my dyno from the JDL UEL header.


http://www.moto-east.com/dynos/ft86/stock_vs_modded.jpg
Simmons

Stop Feeding The Troll Guys. Let Him Keep His Stock Fr-s.


On Another Note, The MXP EL Headers Come Out Soon. Really Really Soon.