So did you only see issues at high RPM or did it idle differently, etc.?

The pedal dance will address that part...

Hi all I'm going to my first come and try day at our local autocross track (i don't think its regular autocross tho) this weekend, they are having instructors and everything available, fantastic timing I've had the car a month.

My only concern is, from what I've heard its a hard compacted sand track, so not necessarily like full on dirt but yeah, I'm still stock and I'm worried the thing might rattle apart, i think there are a few s2000's and possibly another 86 out there but don't know, any tips? I might just go and watch depending on the track surface.

The car isn't a tin can; you'll be okay although you might get the car dirty if you spin out :)

I am not a lawyer, blah blah blah. Your car your warranty, so on and so forth.

That all said:
I've been "offroading" at 75 Mph over hard pan dirt in my BRZ and it was fine (T-Hill turn 15). It was also fine after spinning out at 100 Mph (Buttonwillow exiting the esses), most of which was over dirt and it was fine. I've even run over curbing at 70Mph and bent a rim without any sign of damage to the car itself (actually the bent rim was more because the curb hit the rim directly). When I do a track day I repeatedly subject my car to 1.2 lateral G's on a bunch of corners which, thanks to weight transfer, is basically like hanging the car by two of its wheels hundreds of times a day. I wouldn't recommend doing any of that, but I don't know of any damage that occurred to my car when I did them.

These cars aren't rock crawlers, but they are modern vehicles built to last for hundreds of thousands of miles (well, we all hope they are). If driving over some compacted sand would damage the car in any meaningful way then you wouldn't have much of a car left after going between LA and the bay area on I5 in the right hand lane (you might also have a liquified spine at that point but that is another issue).

To re-iterate though, you always need to weigh the risk and rewards of any motor sport and and the conditions that that event happens in.

Thanks guys, i figure if there are no pot holes and / or too much loose stuff (which if they use it how i expect it should be pretty good) will play it by ear, i love the idea that there are full blown instructors for the day too, think i will learn a heap about my car and driving, havent driven a manual in many many years heaps to learn.

I have a track related question, but of a different sort. How do you become an HPDE instructor?

@CSG Mike and any other track instructors out there, tell me if this sounds at all suspicious to you.

I was at Big Willow last Saturday and towards the end of the day I was approached by the event organizer in regard to a prepaid package deal that they were offering. The package is a solid deal and I explained that I currently already have one, but I wanted to express one major discontentment that would prevent me from purchasing another prepaid package. They don't allow any passengers unless they are one of their instructors.

I explained that having a buddy ride along in my car or being able to ride along in another person's car is part of the fun of a track day. Especially for me since I have a group of friends who are beginners/first-timers, and I along with other more experienced friends are trying to get them into HPDE. He agreed. Ride-alongs are great, but here's the part that seemed suspicious to me.

He immediately asks me how many times I have driven with them. I say 8, to which he replies that 8 just so happens to be the exact number of times that his insurance requires of him before he can appoint that driver to be an instructor. So, problem solved. He'll make me an instructor and I can invite my friends and we'll all be happy.

:confused0068: Really?!?

Only 8 HPDE events and now I'm ready to be an instructor? You can't be serious?

He then asked if I was a good driver, perhaps already expecting me to say yes but I say no, I suck (it's true). This surprised him a bit, but only a little because he continued to say that as far as his insurance is concerned it doesn't matter. I just needed those 8 track days to be good.

What do you guys think? Was this all just a load of bull to try and get me to prepay for more track days (and bring my friends along) or is 8 tracks days really all it takes to become an instructor?

Band of discolaration on rear discs
 

On both rear discs there is a band of discoloration on both outside faces. There is no noticeable band on the inside face. The "not these" in the pic are reflections from the wheel spokes. The pic is from the lhs. On the rhs disc the band of blue is in the same place. Oem rear calipers, XP10 pads.

Any suggestions as to what has caused this?
Ta.

I dont' know the exact terms of Joel's insurance, so I can't say with any certainty, but I can say that I've heard him say time and time again that instructors are required to have a minimum of 7 track days under their belt.

Take it for what you will.

Pad smear?

Are you leaving your VSC on?

What is pad smear?
I am weirded out by the fact it is only a narrow band that doesn't appear on the inner surface. It only appears on the surface closest to the outside of the car.
On track I do the pedal dance (leading with the left foot) but for street use I have the right hand button activated.

Pad smear?? Isnt that what OBGYNs do? lol


j/k. Carry on, then. :D

Is this is a business where the owner needs to turn a profit to keep it going? If so, he'll generally do what he needs to do to make that happen.

Note that groups devoted to providing track time are somewhat different than groups devoted to improving driving skills. Regardless of how many track days an advanced student has run, one group I drive with insists upon putting an instructor in the car with them during the first session of each day. As you might imagine, the number of spins, offs, and other gross errors are pretty rare at that kind of event.

The idea of friends getting ride-arounds at a DE from non-instructors is a new one to me. If the car had back seats, would you foresee putting friends in them as well, or would you limit it to a single friend?

In regards to having passengers ride along, i believe speedventures allows this. They're also a lot more organized. They grid you according to lap time (fastest first, slowest last) so you rarely have to pass or be passed. Plus they're also always on time (in my past experiences with extremespeed, we've always been behind schedule). That being said, extremespeeds package is one hell of a deal :thumbup:

I've seen a wide array of rules regarding passengers, though more seem to allow it than not. The one thing that seems a little strange to me is that those that are more strict about passengers tend to be the ones who are more strict about safety topics. From what I have seen, most HPDEs also tend to be pretty cautious about who they call an instructor (I'm sure they carry more liability to an instructor's actions than a regular participant including the general perception of the event to a new comer). That all said, there are alot of variations on insurance policies and what the underwriter sees as a liability.

If I were you and I was considering your position, I would ask at least the following questions:
* What is expected of an "instructor"? Will you be required to devote time to beginners?
* Are you reimbursed in any way (this can have alot of forms depending upon what work you do for them)
* Do you get any training to be an instructor?
* What is their evaluation procedure for new instructors? (I'd be really worried if a group had an instructor designation and didn't evaluate (from the passenger seat) what the instructor drove like).

And at the same time you should also be asking yourself:
* Do you feel your driving is sufficient to demonstrate to a student?
* Are you willing to get into the car of a complete stranger/first timer and help them get oriented on track? (remember, for all you really know about a first timer, their brake fluid could be half water, their suspension could be hanging on with duct tape and driver might have a just been dumped by their Girlfriend)
* Are you willing to get into the car of an intermediate person? (remember that an intermediate driver is probably the most likely to have a severe accident; they are starting to go fast but they don't yet know how to deal with off-nominal situations)
* Do you feel you can explain concepts like the line and weight transfer from the passenger seat? (it is often very hard to explain things that you do feel)
* How do you feel about the existing instructors in the organization?
* How would you feel if someone did something stupid and wrecked their car while you were in the right seat? (even if it wasn't something you could have helped)

Of course I might be assuming too much about the term "instructor" for the specific group you are looking at. Usually being a coach/instructor carries alot of significance, maybe this group doesn't look at it the same way.

Seven days seems a little short on experience to be an instructor.

Actually, the organization in question is the only one that does *not* allow passengers in SoCal.

I don't disagree, although I've seen a few rare exceptions.

Mostly they're just making sure you can correct glaring errors in driving technique and can demonstrate the line during a "lead follow".

That would be your pad severely overheating and leaving a streak of melted pad on the rotor.

What kind of pads and tires are you running?

IMO, they shouldn't be basing it on number of track days. I know people with three times as much track time as me under their belt that can't follow a consistent line lap after lap.

What's more important in an instructor is can they demonstrate the proper line and talk their way around a course so the student can learn in multiple ways, and can they effectively teach and correct the student.

I've also been coaching ski racing for ~15 years, and some of the best coaches I know aren't that fast at all, but are GREAT coaches.

This was the point I was trying to make to the event organizer. I like their package deal, it's a decent deal and I can see how they would try to use instructors as a way to try and make up some money, but for me it's actually one of the main reason why I wont use them again for now. Perhaps later when my novice friends start getting better and running in the same run group as me I'll go back.

I don't plan on being an instructor. I actually told him that I suck at driving. I was just shocked to hear that he only required 8 tracks days. I couldn't believe it.

Being aware of your own skills and limitations is a very good thing and will serve you well as you get faster. It is hard to improve things when you don't know what is lacking!

Well both myself and the car survived! I rocked up early morning, saw a 260z a couple of old ae86s and an s13 (all cars that i did not expect to be anywhere near me in my area of Aus) I got to do 4 laps on the track, my instruct Keith was excellent and had plenty of experience, was very impressed with how i drove and how the car behaved. Still had the traction control on the for the first lap that made it difficult but holding slides just rocked, there was one corner, the horseshoe as its called that was over 180 degrees around, quite a handful but damn fun!.

He took me for a sneaky ride in his WRX afterwoulds (he was competing that afternoon) and happily for me went wide and over / understeered at all the places i did which was encouraging with someone with as much experience as him, he said the track was awfully slippery and the 4wd only gave him the advantage on corner exit.

I stuck around and watched the runs of the other cars and everyone want me to sign up for my full CAMS (confederation of Australian Motor Sport) liscense and enter that afternoon, i didnt as its a lot to think about but im keen to check out there other events, they do gymkhana and hill climbs and im going to pop along to the next club meeting to ask some more questions.

All in all a great day out!

In regards to the attached picture, what exactly is going on with my rotors? My guess would be heat stress from the track but is it something to worry about or just natural aging of abused parts and monitor it? Does it mean it's getting close to the time to replace the rotors?

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps228gzirr.jpg

The small cracks are heat checking; normal. The whiteish non-reflective stripe looks like a pad just about to start smearing (literally smearing, because it's overheated and melting).

The rotor is fine to use, but as the cracks get larger, get ready to replace them. If a crack reaches the edge of the rotor, it's no good, and needs to be changed ASAP. You'll feel a pulsing your brake pedal if you drive on a cracked rotor.

Got it. I guess its a good thing I ordered those 999s then; can't wait to try them out. Would it also be appropriate to ssy that I should look at getting some ducts to cool the brakes too?

Are there any quality bolt-in roll bars available that have an integral harness bar?


Like these for Miata's? (I come from the BMW/Miata world).


http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept...%20%202%20DIAG

Ducting will help prevent fade, but it comes at the cost of speeding up the process of cracking rotors, since you'll be making the thermal cycles larger.

It's definitely something to keep in mind.

Ok I never thought of that but makes sense.....related then, when it comes time to replace the rotors, is it worth it to just go with a blank replacement rotor or upgrade to something a little more geared toward track duty (still keeping stock brake system)?

Note that you can block off brake ducts when running on tracks where they're not needed.

I recommend blanks for stock brakes.

Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.
 

I have one from Cantrell Motorsports that is very high quality. They make excellent rollbars; I had their bars in past M3 and Cayman.

Shoot them an email and they can send you pics and specs info@cantrellmotorsport.com

You can see pics and specs on their Facebook page

Since we are on the topic of rotors, just a head's up for anyone considering running the stock pads at the track.

I melted my stock pads at my last track day and somehow ended up grooving the shit out of my rotors. The price of getting faster and not bothering to swap in the track pads I guess.

Gory pics in the following post.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=6407

Any idea how do these hold up? I'm due for replacements soon.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZXR6I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3990 Q6PCETP1I&coliid=I3F1QPDE47IPYI"]Amazon.com: Centric 120.47018 Premium Brake Rotor: Automotive[/ame]

Excellent, thanks!

Also, it's common to run your fingernails across the face of a cracked rotor to get a feel for how wide the cracks are - the idea being that when your fingernails catch on a crack, the rotor is ready for replacement. If you do this, you'll find that visually the cracks are already getting fairly wide by the time your fingernails start getting hung up on the cracks.

If you're at the track when you find rotor cracks have become an issue, that's a good time to enjoy the fact that you were thinking ahead and so you have a spare set of rotors ready to throw on between sessions or at lunch. You're going to need them anyway, sooner or later, so why not have them with you when you need them the most?

I was wondering if the STI Brembo BBK is any good for track?

I don't want to start another thread just for this question, but what class do forced induction twins fall into for auto x?

Marginal upgrade to the factory brakes. You will still need to use a track pad to maximize your braking capabilities and capacity. Front Brembo BBK will help a little bit, but the rear Brembo BBK is a downgrade. If you can handle oversteer, I suggest you run non-staggered brake pads at minimum or maybe a more aggressive rear pad to maintain proper bias. We would need to use our temperature probe and paint strips to identify where your brake temperatures are at before recommending you further information.

Ty so much for info. I guess I'll buy stoptech bbk later down the road then lol