The sound will change as the pads bed in.

With PFC 01, 08, and 90 in the AP Racing front calipers my car is louder than a dump truck on the last few dozen feet of a slow stop with moderate or less pedal pressure as soon as there is any temp in the pads/rotors.


That issue isn't present with the same pads on the Baer/Alcon 4-pots on my other car.


The major difference is spring clip position. On AP the pads sit in the clip 'cradle' fore/aft. On Alcon, the pads sit free but there is a giant H-spring under the cross bolt that presses down on them.


Curious if changing to the other spring style would dampen the noise.

It's worth trying if its easy for you to do :)

I have the AP kit (is loud), how do I change to the other spring style?

Not really sure what you mean.

Yep all sounds normal now. Just me being paranoid on my first real brake job. Thanks again Mike for hooking me up with some great pads and fluid!!

I put Baer (Alcon) calipers on my Vette. They have the standard metal spring clips our AP Racing ones do, but under the cross pin they have an additional spring to hold the pads in place and help with vibration. Look at the picture of Alcon's caliper for the 86: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...showimage.html

See the metal 'H' shaped spring under the Alcon name? It looks just like that only with the removable pin instead of Alcon name brace. I'd have to pull a wheel to get an exact pic but does that make a little more sense?

Do any of the forum vendors have a rapport with AP/Essex to find out if this clip is available? If I can find some spring steel sheets I could try to mock a set up for testing.

I get it now.

Let us know if you ever find something.

Essex @JRitt is a forum vendor.

Running Yoko AD08R in my class, and for the Timeattack festival this year I am permitted running semi slicks.
So I bought my self a set of 235/45-17 Yoko A048 (medium) for that race.
My question is, what's your experience time vice too be expected on a course that's about a 1.34-1.36.xxx on ad08r counterpart a A048 medium.
I know it's like comparing how long is a string :lol:
But in a guessing far shoot.
Some of you have most certainly driven both of them, and have some input?

Just talked to Essex, and they said they don't have anything that to quiet down the pads.:thumbdown:

Answer to my self, and if anyone else is wondering about the performance of the A048 medium.
It's about a 1,2 second faster on the same car vs Toyo r888 on a 1.10-1.12.xxx course on a Mazda mx5 race car.

Guys, NEWSFLASH!

Race car parts do NOT make the same allowances for low NVH operation like street car parts.

Deal with it, or don't use race car parts on the street.

Be reasonable in your expectations guys!

I bought the AP sprint kit with street pads and track pads.

I knew from stock brakes track pads are going to make noise. Period. Unless you drive like a complete and utter **** on the street (which I don't mind if you do, but I can't)

Also the AP sprint kit will rust with any salt on them. I don't drive my car in winter salted streets.

Buy what will fit your application! If you want race car performance with street manners you are doing it wrong. You need to spend a lot more $ for something even close to that, think mclaren. If you don't have that money it is very fast and easy to swap pads, and all kinds of other parts.

Bottom line, you have to be reasonable in your expectations. You can get phenomenal street and track performance, but not with the same equipment.

We're working on making a CSG x Brembo brake kit that will cover both spectrums at a reasonable cost...

Some of you may find some peace and quiet with a caliper that has harmonic damping...

People who swap in race pads just for the track, do you swap rotors as well? If not, do you re-bed in your pads at each track day?

I don't bother swapping rotors, just spend the first session making sure you're mentally "with it" and getting the pads bedded in.

I'm looking forward to having Carbotech street & track pads so I don't need to do the game of bedding in pads during the first session.

I use race pads that don't require bedding. Cobalt XR2s.

So I live in North Jersey and just ran VIR & Road Atlanta back to back (driving to both tracks). I don't know how you guys in the southwest do it. I was literally dying out there with the heat and humidity. I think I managed 14 out of a possible 20 total sessions. And at least half of them I ran short. VIR was a high of 90* and Road Atlanta was 98* on the Saturday. Just brutal.

Anyway, the car was OK at VIR but I was continually getting a CEL at RA, 0351. The first time I contacted my shop and they confirmed that it was a coil pack and they had experienced it as well and it was OK to reset it. (In 20 track days over 2.5 years, it's the first time I EVER had the check engine light come on in the car).

However, after that, the check engine light kept coming on after 2-3 laps into every session. The same code 0351. One of the guys from Chin said they see it all the time with hot temperatures and it's likely just the sensors overheating and not necessarily the coilpack itself. The problem is likely made much worse because I'm running an Open Flash header (& stage II tune) which is unshielded and is likely causing a tremendous heat build up.

When the check engine light came on, the traction control light also quickly flashed, even though I had the TC off. And the car seemed to hesitate at lower RPM and generally felt a bit sluggish. The car ran fine on the road all the way back to NJ and the check engine light hasn't come back on. So my question(s) are:

1. Do those of you who do track events with ambient temperatures > 90* frequently pull a cel 0351?

2. Has this eventually (or ever) resulted in a failed coil pack?

3. This may be somewhat obvious but would you recommend having the header wrapped or coated? I'm running an oil cooler but the stock radiator.

4. Was I right to pit when the check engine light came on or just being over cautious? (Frankly, my body was telling me to anyway. How in the HELL do you guys drive in 100* temperatures). Bleuch.

My next two events are Watkins Glen and Mont Tremblant so I doubt I'm going to see those kind of temperatures again but one never knows.

I live in Texas, autox religiously (30+ events a year), and track regularly (6-8 per year). From June-September we are lucky if it is under 100*F and during the summer the lows creep into the mid 80's.

Step 1: hydrate. I freeze a 2L of water and take a couple of sports drinks with me to each event and rarely come back with anything other than empties.

Step 2: cooling for the car. Wrap/coat your headers, get an oil cooler, drop in a bigger radiator (if needed). Don't skimp on the mods that prevent the stuff that keeps you from driving.

Step 3: acceptance. It will be hot, you will get hot, the car will get hot, and no one will feel sorry for you. Deal with it, there is no other solution.

Buy a spare coil and swap it out next time you get the CEL. That's my plan anyway, cause I know it will happen sooner or later and I don't want it to impact my fun.

LOL I appreciate the advise, but I wasn't trying to make a sympathy garnering post, if that's how it came across. My wife is from the Palm Springs area so I understand what the heat can do. I was drinking about 5-6L of fluid per day, wrapping cold, wet towels around my head and neck and putting ice packs in my helmet 5 minutes before my runs and doing what I could to stay cool. And when I wasn't in the car, I was scampering back to the media center where there was at least some shade and mild AC.

What I'm trying to figure out if there's a correlation between high temperatures, the 0351 code, potential damage to the coil packs (or if it's really just a sensor error) and if the situation is being made worse from my unwrapped header. There's already a big debate if the header should be wrapped and Open Flash has suggested not to. But if it means NOT overheating the car, I'd still consider it. I just don't want to go through the hassle and expense if it's not likely to make a difference.

For what it's worth, 6 weeks to the day that I set foot in the VIR paddock, I was up at Watkins Glen where the HIGH was 48*F, the rain was pelting down and the wind was blowing right through you. If you didn't keep moving, you lost feeling in your fingers and toes. The only comfortable place to be was the men's room because it had a small heater blowing. My main concern that day was that the oil cooler wasn't allowing the oil to get up to normal operating temperature just driving to the track. So I'm dealing with some extremes here. :)

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, but I don't turn wrenches and I have very little mechanical knowledge. I swap my wheels and tires and not much more. Exactly what's involved in replacing the coil pack?

I do the same as @DocWalt with my XP10's and have been very happy with it so far. I slap 'em in the night before and drive to the track and back with them in, take the first session cautiously and then let 'er rip.

Some compounds may not take well to that, idk, but I'd feel confident trying it at least once on other makes.

If I could change one thing about the aftermarket it'd be a solution for the coil packs, it's really the only thing that's given me trouble so far. I've got one that I know will throw a code next time I hit the track and it will pull power from me when exiting a corner onto a straight. But I haven't been to the track in months, I almost forgot it was going to be an issue for my next outing.

Replacing isn't impossible, but I wouldn't want to try it between sessions, it's going to be mighty hot in there. It's the boot that goes on the spark plug, so it's like changing the spark plug, without changing the spark plug, but it's a subaru so, boxer engine yay.

This thread covers most of it all:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30879

And here's a quick DIY without pictures:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198

You can also follow any DIY spark plug replacement, just don't change the spark plugs and swap out the coilpacks.

Edit: Delaying the inevitable in case a stealth upgrade gets inserted into the product line to extend their lifespan. I've had it happen once on the street and at about half the track days I've gone to, never at an autox.

So...are you basically saying, once it starts throwing the code, it's kind of a given that it will keep doing it? If that's the case I guess it would just make sense to have it replaced now. As I said, somewhat ironically, in 3 years and about 25 some odd track days, it's the first time I've ever had the check engine light come on. And thanks for the link. I'll have a look.

Yes, it will keep happening. Replace it now before it ruins another track day.

imo I'd bet money it will show up at your next track day. Maybe not in the first session, maybe not until your last lap. First time I had it the light went off in my last two sessions for the day, didn't have a scanner didn't know what it was. I did the same thing, pulled off and panicked. Missed 1/4 of a session due to it and took it super easy the last session. The next time I pulled the code, said 'fuck it' and ran it hard.

It won't break anything to my knowledge, but it did pull power for me and it does obscure a warning light that may actually be of importance.

But people have blown the car up without a single check engine light, I'm starting to think it's more useless than I had assumed...

1. Some people do, but it's an issue that can be permanently fixed. A nice temporary fix is to just carry an extra coil pack, and swap it when it happens again. They're not too expensive (~100 bucks)

2. Your coil pack is already degraded; that flashing slip light is your car repeatedly tripping a CEL, from misfiring. You'll also feel hesitation in your power delivery, and can see it in logs.

3. No need, but wrapping the header can marginally improve power.

4. Absolutely. Preserve the car. Although you're not racing, remember, in a race, if you don't finish, you're last.


You should see the 120+ temps we get out here in California :thumbsup:


Also, get rid of that OFT, and get a proper tune.

Got it! Thanks everybody for the input!

Thunder Hill is often a bit hotter than 100 in the summer.

Yea I got it twice. First time was at VIR, I think that track builds a lot of heat in our engine bay for some reason. Another time the next year at NJMP lightning that caused a bad misfire. Needless to say I carry a spare in my toolbox and flex head long reach 1/4 ratchet.

Too bad I wasn't there you could have had my spare ♥

Tein SRC CSG spec: torque for the top front camber adjustment bolts?
I was planning to install it tomorrow, rechecked the instructions and realized there's no mention about the torque for the 4 nuts that you loosen to slide the top of the front strut in the plate to adjust the camber. Suspension thread and this thread don't have the answer either (unless I don't know how to use google).
Anybody has the official values from Tein? I believe I have common sense but I don't feel like guessing these.
Thanks,
Florin

I don't know the official values, but "hand tight". It's not a load-beading member. Err on the side of caution, and mark where your bolts are locked, so if they slide, you can quickly adjust it back to where it was, and torque slightly higher. Or, lock them im place (use the outermost holes) with a "ballpark" camber, and fine tune using an eccentric bolt on the bottom.

Generally my advise is whatever the length of the tool, go to firm and its usually about right. Then again my entire job involves doing up bolts on multi million dollar pieces of equipment that can cost tens of millions through downtime.

As for the heat it happens. Get shade, hydrate some people here even bring small fans that they sit in front of. Working in environments where its 45C+ every day and next to equipment running running at 1300C gives you some tolerance I guess. I just have a spare coilpack for the day it starts throwing codes to chuck in.

about 50 track days, I never stop due to heat (just drink water and sweat it out), never got a 0351. 2 weeks ago I did Butonwillow 13CW both Sat and Sun, 107 deg on Sat and 104 on Sun. I didn't skip a single lap.
But the drivetrain is 100% stock, transmission is auto (which probably saves the engine due to the higher gear ratios - it also slows me down :) )
Speed not that much, last session of the day with only about 5 cars left on the track the best lap I could do was 2:15.75. But I was with OEM suspension (Tein SRC CSG spec to be installed) and OEM tires with about 75 heat cycles on them.
Florin

haha I just put back my OEM wheels with OEM tires, so they are like 4 years old, maybe ~dozen track days on them. They have been standing in as my coffee table for the past 2 years.

My goodness they are like ice skates. I think I will just run them for the rest of this season and get some Continental DW next season so I can double them as my "rain tire". But I do enjoy the better road manners vs the staggered 18s I just took off.

Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.
 

Just learned this today at the track. Swapped to grillcraft to protect intercooler rad etc in the front from rocks. Pitted when oil got up to 265F with Grillcraft + JR OC + Hood louvers...took grillcraft off and left the hole...next session oil came up to 244F after running high rpm for a while to see how high it would go, couldn't get it higher. 80F ambient both sessions. Not worth risking engine on track with this product, doesn't allow enough air to enter engine bay at speed.

Thanks Mike,
Locking the front camber in place at the top plate wouldn't work very well because my plan is to keep increasing the front camber in the morning before getting on the track and reverting to street values when I leave the track. I am hoping this plan would work because I don't see better options for a dd which also gets plenty of track. This is why I wanted to know as much as I can about the right torque for those bolts, 'cos they will be used a lot. Of course I will lift the front when adjusting camber to reduce the stress as much as I can.
Florin

Keep in mind, that changing camber via the plates also minorly affects toe...

Good point. Toe is affected about 10% as much as camber changes.

Forgot to mention I did get a CEL: about 1yr ago at Buttonwillow (not very hot weather) in the pits just after fueling I got P000C: Camshaft Position "A" - Timing Slow Response Bank 2
The manual describes it as:
"Integrated deviations in target intake valve timing and actual intake valve timing per specified time exceed thresholds for 15 seconds (bank 2). (2 trip detection logic)"
and specifies the fail-safe operation for it as:
"Fix intake VVT control at intermediate position"
I didn't risk staying on the track with it, I drove home tail between legs. The dealer fixed it under warranty and wrote:
"found code P000C in memory, off at this time, AVCS slow pressure. Per service bulletin 02-132-12R, followed procedures, found AVS sensor questionable readings, replaced, cleared code, test drove and rechecked, no light present at this time"
Florin

After that discussion about ignition coil failures... Guess who got to swap a coil at the track? :) I didn't even miss a session, though I got some burns and scrapes doing the swap on a hot car.

Time to buy another spare. :(