Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Got a track related question? I'll try to answer. (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38926)

CSG Mike 08-21-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiichiro (Post 1157186)
Is it a full on track animal or do you street it like that? I'm seeking something between the two I think. How does that much camber feel in straight line at high speed like over hundred?

The car is mixed duty; it has 26k miles on it!

Camber won't affect feel as much as tire itself and toe. A hint of toe-in front/rear will add stability, but isn't ideal for raw grip.

Sonolin 08-21-2013 05:32 PM

Hi Mike, there's an open track event at Willow Springs next month and I was planning on going to this. After reading the first thread, I'm a little concerned with 1) brakes and 2) tune.

Do you recommend I hold off on track days altogether until I can purchase the above items? You mentioned there stock tune "destroys injection collars" is it really that bad?

Was hoping to just try to get some seat time as I've been really itching for a track day but I can't afford any costly mods (>$200) for a few months. I could probably swing a cheap-ish set of brakes but a tune would be a little out of my price range for now.

Thanks

CSG Mike 08-21-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonolin (Post 1157351)
Hi Mike, there's an open track event at Willow Springs next month and I was planning on going to this. After reading the first thread, I'm a little concerned with 1) brakes and 2) tune.

Do you recommend I hold off on track days altogether until I can purchase the above items? You mentioned there stock tune "destroys injection collars" is it really that bad?

Was hoping to just try to get some seat time as I've been really itching for a track day but I can't afford any costly mods (>$200) for a few months. I could probably swing a cheap-ish set of brakes but a tune would be a little out of my price range for now.

Thanks

If you're not very experienced, you'll *probably* be okay, but it does eventually cause damage over the long term.

I would highly recommend you get a set of pads to swap on just for the track day.

Sonolin 08-21-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1157382)
If you're not very experienced, you'll *probably* be okay, but it does eventually cause damage over the long term.

I would highly recommend you get a set of pads to swap on just for the track day.

OK thanks for the info.

Does a tune prevent the long term damage? Or is this something that Toyota needs to fix?? Also, does it throw a CEL?

After reading more I'm getting more and more concerned about this DI failure.

CSG Mike 08-21-2013 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonolin (Post 1157409)
OK thanks for the info.

Does a tune prevent the long term damage? Or is this something that Toyota needs to fix?? Also, does it throw a CEL?

After reading more I'm getting more and more concerned about this DI failure.

Correcting the transient timing table prevents the long term damage, and that correction is currently included in ANY tune that begins with a recent base map released by Ecutek.

Ideally, Toyota/Subaru/Scion need to fix it.

There is no CEL when you get the DI seal failure, only symptoms.

E.g.:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450Pov98STg"]BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube[/ame]

Sonolin 08-21-2013 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1157424)
Correcting the transient timing table prevents the long term damage, and that correction is currently included in ANY tune that begins with a recent base map released by Ecutek.

Ideally, Toyota/Subaru/Scion need to fix it.

There is no CEL when you get the DI seal failure, only symptoms.

E.g.:
BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube

Scary, thank you for the info. Happy to hear a tune will fix.

BRZ NA 09-14-2013 10:57 AM

What's the best wheels /tires set up for stock brz for track used? 255/40/17 or may be 235/40/18?(will use coilover later)

448hpsti 09-14-2013 11:12 AM

Flashing cel under wot is caused by what?

Accurate Race Shop 09-14-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 448hpsti (Post 1211740)
Flashing cel under wot is caused by what?

This happened in my legacy and it was from overheating.

torqdork 09-14-2013 01:21 PM

Mike, I read every post but still aren't sure. Are the newer (post 02/13 production I think) ECU cars still having DI issues?

Also, about trail braking. Every HPDE instructor I've had including two this year says to complete all braking in a straight line before corner entry. Maybe it's a CYA thing so they don't need to explain why I spun trail braking when I tried it solo. But really, what's to be gained trail braking? Is it a speed advantage or ability to rotate? How long should braking be carried into the corner? When should it be avoided (like an off-camber corner or rain)?. Isn't slow in fast out the safer, more predictable, repeatable way to lower lap times?

BRZ NA 09-14-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by track_warrior (Post 1115413)
Yeah you can definitely hear it in my car if you pay attention in the video:

Scion FR-S Chasing Porsche 997 GT3 @ Circuit Of The Americas (Track) - YouTube

Doesn't seems like u get understeer due to the big wing at the back?

Pabloc 10-04-2013 12:27 AM

Spring Rates - Noob Question:

Some springs are rated at 8k, 10k, 14k, etc.

Others are rated at Lbs/in (ie -RCE Yellows)

What gives?
How does one convert to the other?

KKaWing 10-04-2013 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pabloc (Post 1249886)
Spring Rates - Noob Question:

Some springs are rated at 8k, 10k, 14k, etc.

Others are rated at Lbs/in (ie -RCE Yellows)

What gives?
How does one convert to the other?

Use this:

http://www.hraefn.net/projects/spring_rates.php

ZDan 10-04-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torqdork (Post 1211912)
Also, about trail braking. Every HPDE instructor I've had including two this year says to complete all braking in a straight line before corner entry. Maybe it's a CYA thing so they don't need to explain why I spun trail braking when I tried it solo. But really, what's to be gained trail braking? Is it a speed advantage or ability to rotate? How long should braking be carried into the corner? When should it be avoided (like an off-camber corner or rain)?. Isn't slow in fast out the safer, more predictable, repeatable way to lower lap times?

It is almost impossible to drive a car anywhere near its limits "braking only in a straight line". This type of advice or instruction is totally counterproductive and slows down the learning process. As a newb driver years ago, I didn't get anywhere my first track day until I quit trying to "brake only in a straight line".

It is much much easier to gradually trade braking for cornering than to get totally off the brakes and then try to turn in. The car just wants to push. Very awkward, very unnecessary.

Trail braking is NOT an "advanced technique"! As an instructor, I often have to reteach beginning drivers to get them over the brainwashing they've received about how to enter a corner.
At a ZCar convention a few years back, I was asked to go out on the autoX course with a friend's wife who was having a hard time. At the very first corner, which she entered just fine, she apologized for not "braking in a straight line"! I told her she was doing fine, not to worry about it. I did practically nothing else, and she was 2 seconds faster and had a helluva lot more fun driving the course, vs. being forced to "brake only in a straight line" which her previous two instructors had totally insisted on.

Trail-braking is faster because it is smoother, and it makes it infinitely easier to hit the apex as it takes advantage of the front grip you get from increased load on the fronts under braking, and of course it also allows you to carry more speed a bit deeper into the braking zone.

That's not to say that braking deeper is always better or faster overall, you can go too far. But if you aren't trail-braking some amount at corner entry, you're doing it wrong. You pretty much *have* to trail-brake to execute a proper line into most corners. This business about getting completely off the brakes before turning in is stupid, makes the car much more difficult to drive, and is totally unnecessary. I expect my students to be trail-braking pretty much immediately. It's easier, feels more natural, and is faster.


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