Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB

- Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72)

- - Direct Injector Leaking (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36129)

^^Understood.

Should one be concerned, I wonder, about a seal that is not damaged enough to need replacing, but has been weakened as a result of this condition . . . ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2forme (Post 980555)

Right, but once the seal is blown, the ECU flash won't fix it. The seal will need to be replaced at that point.

Yes.

But ... if we take it over 5200 rpm, employ wide-open throttle, and upshift "aggressively", WOT - Closed - WOT, then we may need to replace it yet again next week. GM apparently calls the phenomenon "burst knock." See: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...1725e&start=20

What role does "excessive" heat play? Guys on track are recording quite high oil temps, apparently.

I wonder what that Crawford(?) fellow who built the monster FA20 turbo motor thinks about all of this? He's making his 500 hp(?) motor last at least for a little while. What's he doing different? Then again, maybe the only similarity to our engines is the crankcase. :)

As others have said, this is worrisome. I'm becoming reluctant to drive our BRZ at all hard, never mind take it on the track. But this little 2-liter begs for wide open throttle (WOT) and revving over 5200 rpm. If that is now too risky, well...

Not for a moment do I believe Subaru is in the dark about these issues. In my mind, Subaru is stonewalling Mike and others. I'm not reassured by Subaru's behavior. I'm actually beginning to entertain thoughts of selling this car now with less than 5k miles on it, precipitous as that may sound. Ordinarily, I'd never say such a thing.

So what if they replace my injector components. How badly have my pistons already been damaged? How close is my engine to catastrophic failure now?

I dislike this sort of uncertainty and ambiguity; it's more than I originally bargained for when I bought a first year, brand-new design. I expected teething troubles, but this threat of catastrophic engine failure is unexpected.

The correct response by Toyobaru would be to issue a recall and fix the cause of the problem while also updating the design to be more resistant to it in the future. I mean, the cost of these parts are miniscule compared to the amount a new motor would cost, even assuming it only ever affects 1% of owners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchy (Post 981074)

IIRC he had heat sink issues causing the car to be unresponsive.

Also i wouldn't worry about not driving the car hard. If it blows up, it blows up, i'm not tracking the car so if anything i'm doing CSG Mike a favor by driving hard and running the risk of this issue occurring to my car on the street. if it does, then there's another car to be added to the list of this issue to help toybaru find a permanent fix.

Really surprised my motor hasn't detonated, especially even after the mechanic driving it on the highway to replicate it doing all the popping continuously. My bay is all stock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche (Post 980664)

So what if they replace my injector components. How badly have my pistons already been damaged? How close is my engine to catastrophic failure now?

I question this as well... Even if my seals are OK, has the damage already been done to the pistons?

Just out of curiosity, everyone who is having these injector troubles, did you follow proper break-in procedure? Everyone always argues whether you should or shouldn't follow the manufacturers break-in procedure. Well, I think this would be a good place to start collecting data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious (Post 981204)

We can do even better, since we had two engines. Both were broken in per manufacturer recommendation, with easy driving, surface street speeds only.

I literally drove from Los Angeles to San Diego for dinner, using surface streets only. Took about 5 hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 981254)

Well, that was easy. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious (Post 981268)

Well, that was easy. Thanks.

Also, when you're literally doing surface streets only, you only clock 20-30 miles on the odometer per hour.... -_-

Here are some further thoughts to ponder: So far, Subaru/Toyota have not shown that they have a general fix for all of us, and/or are uninterested in pursuing a universal fix. My suspicions currently are that this phenomenon of “Burst Knock” (to borrow from GM), and the potential or certain(?) catastrophe that follows when sufficient damage accumulates over time is applicable to anyone who drives these cars “aggressively.” It may destruct sooner if one tracks the car, but I have to wonder if my BRZ is safe even if I do not track the car. It just may take longer.

That Toyota bulletin indicated the cause of failure to be the result of “aggressive” shifting above 5200 rpm.

If it blows up, Subaru/Toyota will replace your engine.

Once.

Meaning?

To me, as I read things, they currently cannot assure owners that the engine will not destruct yet again. But next time = NO WARRANTY.

No warranty to cover our engines on our new cars. The most expensive component on our cars is no longer covered following the first replacement which occurred through no fault of the owner, but was almost certainly the result of a serious design flaw.

Faced with that situation, I would not dare take it over 5200 rpm and shift “aggressively.”

Now, is it not true that the engine replacement would be recorded in the CarFax database?

What will that do to the resale value of said car?

Would YOU buy it as a used car at market competitive prices? With an ENGINE REPLACEMENT on record?

Not me, mon.

Maybe for a $10,000 discount, but I’d probably still avoid it. Who needs that kind of trouble? Will a non-Subaru dealer give me full market trade value on a trade-in? Will Subaru, even? They’ve still got to sell it to an increasingly savvy market who know enough to check the CarFax records.

For the record: I am unaware of any problems with MY car of any significance, although I have just now heard my crickets awaken at 4200 miles. Crickets do not concern me, and no one is touching my fuel pump, thank you. I took delivery of my new BRZ one year ago.

And for Shag’s edification, I broke it in very progressively and patiently. In fact, I followed the Porsche company’s break-in procedure. Many folks would sneer at how I broke in my BRZ. But, I’ll bet when they’re in the market for a used BRZ, mine’s the one they’d want to buy. ;)

I really like this car. But these recent developments concern me.

I know they can do better than this. In the recent Nurburgring 24-Hour Race, the GT86 won one class and was second in another and many others scored very well. Did they not do well last year, too? I fail to see how those cars could do that with the same ECU fuel/ignition mapping that we have on our street cars. These engines can be made to work, and work reliably. There surely is no tougher endurance race on the calendar than this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche (Post 981359)

Here are some further thoughts to ponder: So far, Subaru/Toyota have not shown that they have a general fix for all of us, and/or are uninterested in pursuing a universal fix. My suspicions currently are that this phenomenon of “Burst Knock” (to borrow from GM), and the potential or certain(?) catastrophe that follows when sufficient damage accumulates over time is applicable to anyone who drives these cars “aggressively.” It may destruct sooner if one tracks the car, but I have to wonder if my BRZ is safe even if I do not track the car. It just may take longer.

That Toyota bulletin indicated the cause of failure to be the result of “aggressive” shifting above 5200 rpm.

If it blows up, Subaru/Toyota will replace your engine.

Once.

Meaning?

To me, as I read things, they currently cannot assure owners that the engine will not destruct yet again. But next time = NO WARRANTY.

No warranty to cover our engines on our new cars. The most expensive component on our cars is no longer covered following the first replacement which occurred through no fault of the owner, but was almost certainly the result of a serious design flaw.

Faced with that situation, I would not dare take it over 5200 rpm and shift “aggressively.”

Now, is it not true that the engine replacement would be recorded in the CarFax database?

What will that do to the resale value of said car?

Would YOU buy it as a used car at market competitive prices? With an ENGINE REPLACEMENT on record?

Not me, mon.

Maybe for a $10,000 discount, but I’d probably still avoid it. Who needs that kind of trouble? Will a non-Subaru dealer give me full market trade value on a trade-in? Will Subaru, even? They’ve still got to sell it to an increasingly savvy market who know enough to check the CarFax records.

For the record: I am unaware of any problems with MY car of any significance, although I have just now heard my crickets awaken at 4200 miles. Crickets do not concern me, and no one is touching my fuel pump, thank you. I took delivery of my new BRZ one year ago.

And for Shag’s edification, I broke it in very progressively and patiently. In fact, I followed the Porsche company’s break-in procedure. Many folks would sneer at how I broke in my BRZ. But, I’ll bet when they’re in the market for a used BRZ, mine’s the one they’d want to buy. ;)

I really like this car. But these recent developments concern me.

I know they can do better than this. In the recent Nurburgring 24-Hour Race, the GT86 won one class and was second in another and many others scored very well. Did they not do well last year, too? I fail to see how those cars could do that with the same ECU fuel/ignition mapping that we have on our street cars. These engines can be made to work, and work reliably. There surely is no tougher endurance race on the calendar than this one.

I know!!...I went with the car because it is Toyota. Period. I want reliability and if I WOT to redline with "Aggressive shifting" my car literally 1-2 times a week for not even a 30 second sprint, THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN especially at 18k miles.

Seems like the fix is an ECU reflash, shouldn't be long to fix... After EPA vetting of course -.-

Agreed. I expect the TSB to show up in the mail relatively soon. I, once again, suggest you all call your OEM and and talk about this issue. Get it documented and let them know we are aware there is a problem.