Motortrend: 1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI!
 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3_nYbojfow"]1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI! Head 2 Head Episode 31 - YouTube[/ame]

Enjoy!

Just saw it this morning and the english feller was quite annoying....

Price as tested on the GTI was 35K?! Did I read that right? If that's the case, F that thing. FRS all day long.

The GTI is front-wheel-drive.
FRS is rear.
Nuff said.

Nothing unexpected here, everything said is valid and makes sense.

It comes down to preference.

The GTI is embarrisingly faster than a stock FR-S, it's $10K more, it weights a lot more and it's FWD so it's not really a good comparision. The FR-S vs. the E30 M3 on the other hand has been a source a several threads all over the internet on the topic

Anyone priced a decent looking, rust free E30 M3 lately? They are mostly north of $30k as well. How about finding body parts? FR-S wins again!

Eric G

That's true. Add a decent forced induction setup and you'll have something faster than the GTI..... for less money.
That's my justification when people brag that they have a faster, yet more expensive car.....:lol:

People race fwd cars all the time. 90% of the people who make fun of fwd cars have never even seen a race track.

I thought Randy Pobst got a faster time around the track than the GTI. Maybe I heard wrong.

Both have valid points and both are great cars. At the end of the day though I traded in my modded MK6 GTI for my FRS as soon as the dealer called me with one in stock. Much rather my FRS for the fun factor and the big smile I get pushing it. The GTI was definitely faster in terms of speed but it did feel "boring".

It's like asking whether a 335i or S2000 CR is the better car. At VIR, the 335i ran a 3:13, whereas the S2000 CR is 2 seconds slower at 3:15. So the 335i runs faster laptimes, has more torque, is more comfortable, more practical, seats 4, and has a safer handling balance. Does that make it a better car? Not even close.

I've actually got the exact cars in the review -- GTI w/DSG and FR-S w/6MT. Both are great, so it really comes down to what you're looking for. To me, the most telling thing is that I end up driving the FR-S everywhere. It's more than practical enough to be a daily driver, and is the more fun car to drive. And isn't that the point?

I don't know what world a git cost 35-37 I got mine for 22500 brand new. Maybe if you get a completely speced out one but I thought they topped out at 30k. Now if you are talking a golf r I would believe the 35-37k price tag, but they are a different beast 256hp and awd.

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thats a very dangerous way of thinking for an frs owner.
i am not even sure the golf r is on the gtis level if that makes any sense. yeah its fast but its pretty heavy and its awd system is pretty much junk from what i understand.

Kind of an odd comparo since the FT-86 already beat the E46 im similar tests.

This means nothing. You can take an old Civic, add some suspension and totally smoke a FRS around the track for a fraction the cost...

Doesn't the GTI come with P-Zero's?

You heard it right. In right hands FRS is faster than gti. And my god how boring car GTI is...

But an old civic isn't brand new.... haha

You can really feel the torque in the GTI, but the FRS is more fun to drive everyday.

So in summary: get whichever you prefer.

That's basically what it always boils down to. :)

They generally come with all seasons - Pirelli P Zero Nero AS or Dunlop SP Sport 01 AS.

A few came with max performance summer tires as a factory option, but that was pretty rare -- Bridgestone Potenza RE050A.

E30 M3 vs FR-S would be a tough decision if I had $25k in cash to spend. Too bad you can't finance an E30 M3, especially considering it's now an appreciating asset.

first time I watched one of these things and felt annoyed, not by the subject but the hosts.

A little over $7k more (as tested to as tested), but, that is just splitting hairs. I totally agree with your statement nonetheless.

Ehh its preferences , but if you take those 10k and drop in a turbo you can easily rape the GTI in every benchmark, just name it...

one thing he didn't say is the GTI is been around for a long time so the development of the GTI is way ahead of the FRS/BRZ, when the GTI came out it was the golf's upscale model for the FRS/BRZ its the only model out in the market in the US. give this chassis few more years and this will surpass the FWD GTI

o yeah they didnt factor in the tires, the frs/brz has a 215 Michelin Primacy compare to the 225 Pirelli P-Zero if they both have same tires im willing to bet the FRS will be faster

3000 vs 3300 not that big of a deal. Not sure where you have heard that the awd is trash but it is definitely isn't. The golf r is definitely a superior car to the gti. I owned a gti sold it for the frs. Wouldn't buy another one but I am considering getting a golf r as a second car with a intake, exhaust, hpfp and apr 2+ tune you can have 350 whp. Plus having forged internals from the factory you can have some faith that it won't blow up after 10k. If you haven't test driven both then you can't really compare them.

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The Euro guy "would rather eat his own poo" than drive the better driver's car?! (FRS)

That's funny, because I would rather take a poo and drive inside of the poo than drive a GTi around...plaid seats...crimony

I am the owner of a 2011 GTI with the sunroof package and the 6sp manual transmission. With this setup I did not pay anywhere near what the Leather package (forgot what VW calls it) in the test costs. I like the car a lot but will be trading for one of these in a year or so. I would expect that even with performance tires in the stock size the lap times would have been close.

I have not driven an FR-S yet but looking at the spec I would expect that the performance would be similar to the RSX Type S I traded for my first 07 GTI. The RSX needed to be rev’d to reline all the time to make the car perform. The GTI has a lot of low end power and flat runs out of breath at redline. Even as an old fart I miss the RSX and am ready for a similar car. With the FR-S being rear wheel drive even better.

Nailed it one the head... with authority! Lol I have the same exact sentiments. My poor motorcycle has only been brought out four times so far. I almost feel like im forcing myself to ride it, when I know deep down I'd rather be in the brz. End of the day, it should be what puts a bigger smile on your face.

I'm lucky enough to own both .:)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8363/8...2d96ee1c_c.jpg

The one thing that the E30 M3 has that a lot of newer cars are missing is soul. The BRZ comes damn close.

Tom

i have never driven a golf r and i dont doubt its objectively superior to the gti. i just cant help fut feel like that haldex style drivetrain means most of the understeer of a fwd with the weight of awd. i just dont now enough about those things i guess.

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps3025c488.jpg

Also lucky enough to own both. Stock for stock, the BRZ is the closest I have driven in feel. The M3 is more raw and the BRZ more refined. Essentially an E30 M3 for daily driving duty.

in the end it will come down to...
frs vs. m3 = new vs. used argument
frs vs. gti = rwd vs. fwd argument

Either way, i prefer brand new with the ability to drift. Besides, GTI looks like a bloated toad.

British guy is a moron. Look, if you're going to make an argument, then make an argument, don't just make sh** up.

British guy: "The GTI is better because it's faster."
Other guy: "But the FRS is more fun."
British guy: "Doesn't matter, the faster car is better."

Fast forward to the M3 which had the slowest lap time but like the FRS is light and rwd:

British guy (completely invalidating his argument): "Now this is the superior car!"


Moron.

haha British guy keeps going on the faster car being better so the GTI wins!!! ... But then admitted that with a real driver the FR-S put down faster times. I think he was just butthurt that he couldn't drive it.

Wrong wheel drive is wrong wheel drive. Some cars are fast in spite of it. None are fast because of it.