TRD CAI and Exhaust HP Gains
 

I was just reading this article on Scions Pro Celebrity Race cars including an comments from Chuck Wade (directory of Toyotas Motorsports garage).
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...NEWS/130319965

He says
So I would take it that this could be considered fairly reliable information since its coming from Toyota and they have absolutely no desire to embellish the FR-S performance numbers.

Serves as a good baseline for those wondering what they can get from the two most common and easy performance upgrades.

But that's straight pipe too and no second cat.

Tap'd via G-Note2...

That thing is atrocious. Just my opinion but, if i'm going to install a Cold Air I want it increase room in the engine bay. Not cluster it back up.

Bout wouldn't the sheer massive size of the surface area of the new filter help increase air flow?

Eh, i'd want to see dynos to back it up. I know it's from TRD but, just like any other perfromance product, I want detailed reveiws and dynos to back it up. Just for me though I don't like it. Everyone has their own opinion though.

Yeah but he meant it is so massive that you no longer have room to work under your engine..

No one listens to me... TRD is crap, lol. Been saying it for a long time on these forums and the fanboys all disagree and throw their money at them.

The TRD exhaust is barely bigger than stock in the midpipe section, you won't anything change but the sound.

The intake is much too large and you're better off using the FA20club or Perrin CAI's as they are the best intakes for out of the hood options. (In my opinion)

In addition to everything Matt said, remember this...

The engine will only flow so much air. Period. Once you remove the restrictive, stock filter and replace it with an aftermarket one, you have already relieved nearly 99% of the restriction with a stock airbox. The OEM airbox really IS that well designed! That very large TRD filter will NOT magically make a stock engine flow more air than what it is capable of taking in and neither will any other intake.

Scott

Interesting...

"The cars run on 100-octane race fuel -- there's no performance gain, but it levels out the knock sensors for even running."

Unfortunately, we are all listening to you. Most of us just chose to ignore you. Every time this intake is brought up you start whining and complaining about it. You don't like TRD. We get it. You have bitched about it in three threads now. And guess what.... We don't care.

Your getting annoying... even for the internet.

Agreed. Perhaps we can get a tuner to explain this statement to us because I can't make sense of it.... How can 100 octane not give performance gains? And why is the engine knocking in the first place?

Cry about it TRD fanboy. At least I'm not wasting money on TRD lettering.

It's you're, not your btw. Welcome to the internet.

I don't even own anything made by TRD.

Please follow these instructions before your next post:

Step one: :suicide:

Back on topic: I wonder if he meant 10hp to the crank or the wheels with the full exhaust and intake?

Now now children, you play nice.

I have just about come to this conclusion as well. I mean the stock air intake setup is already pulling air from outside the engine bay.

So now I have been trying to decide what aftermarket filter to pick up. K&N is usually a go to. Do you have a preferred one?

K&N seems really popular. A bunch of people were excited about the Works filter for a while as it was marketed to have the highest gains. I think Zeta and Perrin have options you can look at as well. I'll bet they will all perform about the same. Just pick what you like.

Pretty sure that Toyota marketing bro just threw a number out...

+1

Overpipe back exhaust with catless downpipe should easily be good for those claimed power gains. Will be interesting to see when people start getting these if they do much or not. I do like the fact it cleanly removes the main resonator without having to cap it off or modify the stock box. Plus the filter can be cleaned without removing the bumper.

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Do tell us your vast experience and the knowledge on the subject.

So the exhaust is not big enough and the intake it too big? Got it. I'm going to have to forget everything I know and have a conversation with you. School is in progress. Let me go get my pencil and paper. :cry:

dont quote me on this but what i know running a high octane does not mean you will gain more HP especially without a more aggressive timed tune, actually a lower octane provides a stronger spark hence a stronger bang. The higher the octane the cooler the bang which helps reduce knocking and detention risks especially with boosted motors.

please correct me if I'm wrong ! i don't mind getting educated about this too !

Feel free to pay $1200 for a catback exhaust that does nothing but sound, and an intake that's a larger version of the stock one that removes the snorkel for a higher price than the Perrin + inlet or a way higher price than the FA20club CAI. $425 for a plastic box with red TRD letters glued to it? LOL. Filter is still inside the hood, just like 90% of the other intakes. The aFe pulls from the same scoop.

$1200 just about gets you a full headerback from Perrin or a downpipe/axleback combo from Nameless. Makes zero sense.

They did make more power out of their supercharger than Innovate did...trustworthy

Does it remove the snorkel. I was under the impression it used the stock snorkel. Do you mean sound generator?

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I was actually talking about the inlet tube where the stock sits and pulls the air. Guess I should have said fresh air scoop.

High octane increase the flash point and keep the engine from detonating. All it's doing it keeping the knock sensors from backing out the timing.

Explain why having the filter inside the engine compartment matters when the air is drawn from the exact same place as the Perrin intake, in front of the radiator. I just find it interesting that people seem to think a 122 cubic inch, 200 HP motor needs to flow air like a big block V8....

Heat builds up under the hood from the engine, therefore raising intake temperatures. Just look at the Injen intake thread where they dyno'd it open hood vs closed hood. Massive difference.

OK, so the air still has to flow through a tube that runs through that same engine compartment to get to the motor, right? Does it matter where that air is filtered? The Injen intake also pulled air from the engine compartment I believe. The stock intake and the TRD pull from in front of the radiator, just like these CAI intakes.

The TRD intake gets cold air through the snorkel, just like the stock intake. It draws the same cold air that the FA20 and Perrin unit take advantage of. The only difference is the location of the filter which should not matter in terms of heat soaking.

The Injen unit has its filter in the engine bay and does not use the stock snorkel. As a result of drawing air from the engine bay it produces higher intake temperatures... which is the main reason why it performs so poorly.

The TRD unit should perform at least as well as the FA20 and Perrin intakes. It has less bends and draws the same cold air from the same location. I think it will also filter better, which is good. You can also service the filter without removing the bumper and it is 50 state legal.

Is it 50 state legal, a lot of times even OEM after market parts come with off road use disclaimers. Not saying it may amount to much, but I bet having a box and filter that large under the hood is not as efficient as having the filter located by the cold air source. Also I bet the Perrin and fa20 CAI sound much better. Half the reason for getting an intake is the sound.

Then again I don't want to remove my bumper once a year to clean the filter.

I think I'm going to put the next chunk of money I spend into a Visconti tune. Better return than any intake.

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The TRD intake comes with an emissions sticker so you are good to go there.

As far as filter placement.... I don't see how the filter location will make a difference. The filter has to go somewhere and having it in the middle of the piping (TRD) shouldn't be any better or worse than having it at the end of the piping (perrin).

I agree that a tune will have the best return in terms of performance. That is next on my list as well.

TRD has mostly very high quality (OEM level fit and finish) parts, that are on the conservative side.

There is definitely a market for these types of parts! Not everyone wants the fastest setup out there, made by a small speed shop. Some want parts developed and produced with the backing of a major company with no impact on warranty or emissions legality.

While this has been the recent norm for TRD, you may want to take a look at their history in a bit more detail. Like the development around the NA Beams 3SGE.. 2.0L 270+ hp NA 9,000 rpm.
Look at the cams, the awesome exhaust manifold and ITBs.
Link -->http://trdparts.jp/english/parts_engine-3s-ge.html

We can hope TRD is getting more serious with the recent offerings for the Lexus IS and the launch of the BRZ/FRS/86.

TRD Intake Quick Look

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=355

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8121/8...4ac324cc_c.jpg
20130403-86TRDIntake-030 by VictorN07, on Flickr

I'm a beginner at car tuning but reading from a lot of posts about TRD, isn't there a big difference between NA TRD and Japanese TRD? Is this CAI from JDM TRD? Maybe the difference is between what they release to consumer ($$$ grabbin') vs what they can really do... I mean look at the TRD griffon concept, that's a pretty damn impressive build no?

Just gonna make it simple.
Best bang for your buck = stock intake
For marginally better performance (1-3whp) =go CAI
I would avoid short ram systems.

As far as leveling out the knock sensors, the car was designed to run on 93 octane, or RON, and was "tested on 98" according to Toyota somewhere, I forget where. In commifornia, where premium is 91, the ecu dials back the timing so that the engine will not knock. This makes for lower numbers. When you put in the 100 octane, it allows the engine with the stock, factory tune, to run at it's full potential without pulling timing back. Therefore no power loss.

With that said, it seems they are running 100 octane fuel, but without a custom tune. IE they're running a trd intake and exhaust, on 100 octane "race" gas, but with a factory tune. They could squeeze more out of it if they wanted to by advancing the timing just a tad.



It's basically why people are able to make more power with the E85 tune on our cars. On boosted motors, it allows you to run more boost without detonation. On NA motors, like mine with my E85 tune, the timing is able to be advanced and so on, again, without risk of detonation.

As a side note, E85 has a knock rating equivalent to that of a 105 octane fuel.

All in all, running a 100 octane gas on a factory tune will simply allow the car to run the way it was designed to from the get go if you're used to filling up with 91 or 93.

Running 105, 110, C16, or E85 with a custom map tailored to that grade of fuel is what lets you push more power out! :)

I add 100 octane to my 91 CA gas when I am at the track doing HPDE. Not for power per say, but because of what TRD stated. To give the knock sensor/s a break and have consistent power levels throughout the day/temp/conditions.

I also don't have an oil cooler installed yet and high oil temps can = more knock. So I just add a little precaution.

I might be biased in saying this, but well said!

http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/edg...duty_calls.png

Show some independent 3rd part dynos of this trash and maybe I will believe it. Not some TRD marketing idiot.