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- - Regarding "Race" oils. (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30803)

Regarding "Race" oils.

Cross posted from a discussion here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30742

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemang17 (Post 784690)

motul makes a quality product....far superior to the oil that our engines was designed to run....no worries....ZERO..... 3-4 events per year isn't that hard on the car.....as long as the oil is fresh prior to event (or sorta close)

My experience.....the quality of oil you run is HUGE, unreal really.....Motul makes a quality product, as does Royal Purple, Redline and Amsoil (I am a Amsoil dealer).... While I am not 100% certain of Motuls exact blending, one thing you DO NOT want to do is run true race oil in a STREET car.....true race oils do not have the proper amounts of detergents to keep the engine clean during extended oil change intervals and cope with excessive hydration if you park outside.....they are designed for extremely hard use with very short change intervals, hence the lack of detergents

An example....my race 928 is a 4.5L V8 designed for heavy oils....I run Amsoil 15-50 racing....I take a sample every 2 hours on track to send out for analysis and changed around 6-8 hours....not from the analysis saying it needs to be changed, but because I can't handle the dark black oil..... Street cars go thousands of miles at least 150 hours on the engine between changes.....so you see the need to have the proper oil given your requirements

My VOA (virgin oil analysis) would say otherwise. I run 300V for 10k intervals in my S2000, which is currently at 116k miles, and has hundreds of hours of run time at 6000+ RPM. Believe me, I'm completely anal about proactive/preventative maintenance.

We run 300V in the CSG shop cars, and our current oil change is at about 6000 miles. I can assure you that the car has seen plenty of track time :)

Re: 8100. You want to prepare you car for the harshest condition you will expose it to (this applies to brake pads as well). If you plan on running one marathon a year, do you train by doing 2 mile jogs every day? In my experience, 8100 has broken down with JUST canyon driving; I used to use it before I ever started hitting the tracks, and UOA showed it be insufficient, even though it is a very highly regarded oil.

As always, YMMV. We change our fluids based on test results from Blackstone, and recommend that anyone interested in extended oil change intervals to do the same.

We carry the full line of Motul fluids. PM @CounterSpace Garage for more info, or visit our www.counterspacegarage.com

300V virgin oil analysis.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/VOA.jpg

Oil analysis on my factory fill on the S2000 (Yes, I started from the begining)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/UOA1.jpg

Different oils I tried in my car, until I discovered 300V. Look at the viscosity break down. My car was strictly a daily driver/canyon carver at this point. Still zero track time!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/UOA6.jpg

Experimenting with different diff fluids.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75...oazn/Diff6.png

You are correct about the detergents, although 8100 0W-20 is a 100% synthetic, ester based oil.
http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produc...iscosity%5D=36

There's a new Motul 8100 0W-20 available in Australia and it is likely PAO based.
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...pdf?1339474108

Only the 6100 series is synthetic blend.
http://www.motul.com/us/en-us/produc...%5Brange%5D=25

-Dennis

Just one point I'd like to make that Dennis could probably clarify: Don't the racing oils usually have higher phosphorous levels, to the point they could be deadly to the cats?

Oops. I stand corrected. Need more coffee. Not sure why I was thinking 8100 when I was thinking 6100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses (Post 786225)

Just one point I'd like to make that Dennis could probably clarify: Don't the racing oils usually have higher phosphorous levels, to the point they could be deadly to the cats?

Higher phosphorus levels than GF5 oils? Yes. Enough to be deadly to cats? No, IMO, as long as you're not burning a lot of oil.

The phosphorus levels shown above are actually typical of Rotella 5W-40, and many other 40 weights that Subaru turbo owners (like me) love to run, and the other Subaru forums don't have a lot of posts about cat failures and most would say the dead cat thing is overblown. There's a guy over at bitog that has worked in the oil industry for many years for some of the major oil companies and he has been running high phosphorus diesel oils in gas cars since the 60's!

Of course, YMMV, and don't blame me if you do have a cat failure running a high phosphorus oil. :D :happy0180:.

-Dennis

Here in the NY/NJ area we get back blackstones from motul in client cars 8100 x-clean 5w30 on 5000 mile intervals that are amazing. We have been selling and using in our cars the 8100 for a long time and for a street car on 7500 intervals it is more than adequate to be used. On cars that are tracked, you will want to change your oil shortly before an even and shortly after an event to provide the most protection.

The v300 is also great, but overkill for most drivers in our opinion.

We also stock and sell Motul so feel free to ask for a quote and we are one of the only stocking dealers in the Tristate.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 786242)

Oops. I stand corrected. Need more coffee. Not sure why I was thinking 8100 when I was thinking 6100.

So it was the 6100 that showed breakdown in the above UOAs?

One is 8100 and one is 6100. Both broke down.

We've ran the 8100 in both our street and track cars for a few years now. No breakdowns and the UOAs for them have come back very well. We have ran the 8100 X-Clean C3 5w30 and 5w40 in our cars and have a fairly decent size sample of customer cars that run them. I would say that we do about 50+ Motul oil changes a month on customer's cars as well.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

@CSG Mike:

Is there any benefit to running Motul 300V 0W20 over Motul 8100 0W20??

Or would you recommend just running 300V 5W30 all the time (especially if the car will see the track)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by schtebie (Post 822444)

@CSG Mike:

Is there any benefit to running Motul 300V 0W20 over Motul 8100 0W20??

Or would you recommend just running 300V 5W30 all the time (especially if the car will see the track)?

The 300v 0w20 will be more robust than the 8100 0w20 but the cost is probably not warranted for a street car.

The 300v 5w30 would be a good choice for track beaten cars.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Will the 300V 0W20 withstand street use such as 8000 OCI and cold starts every day?

I heard some people say 300V is good for track and only meant for really short OCIs

If it's driven on the street you gain not from running a race-only oil. You need a "compromise", an oil that good enough for the track but has the necessary ingredients for the street (detergents etc). Many street oils are so good they work very well under racing conditions.

If you have a dedicated race car that's never left outside in the cold you really should be running a dedicated race onlyoil, they're just that good.

I see some excellent oils in this thread. Good thread, but surprised nobody mentioned Joe Gibbs, one of the undisputed champions of racing oil development.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/media...s_lg_xp3_1.jpg

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/xp3.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by rice_classic (Post 822991)

Haven't seen that used in subies yet. It may be because no one thought to use it or perhaps it is similar to Mobil 1 which does not do very well in Subies at all.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"