I thought with the BS torsen it would be okay. I BABIED it for the 20 miles I drove

Great thread! Going for my first HPDE event ever in June (/w instructor) and it was great to read all these seasoned opinions. Especially the part about driver aids on or off. Will probably keep them on to begin, LOL and then if the instructor feels comfortable with my driving level, see if s/he thinks that turning them off for a bit just to get a feel would be a good idea.
Thanks to all who have opined! :thumbsup:

And yes, the owner's manual also says to ALWAYS put the spare on the front, they have the BIG warning signs too :)

I know, answering my own question is kind of lame, but it has been over a year since I wrote this post and I have more experience with my car:

On the longer track (Brainerd International Raceway), I felt the stock belts system was not adequate to hold me in place. I moved around a lot, and kept trying to pull the belt tight during my driving sessions. When I again have the funds, I will be looking for a better alternative.

A year later: I now drive almost exclusively with the traction control shut off (mostly: with the buttons, not with the pedal dance). I am now convinced that the rear squirm I felt in icy conditions last year was a result of the stability control. When easing off the throttle in very icy conditions, the drivetrain drag is enough to cause a little slip. With attentive driving, this is normally (marginally) controllable. I think the stability system engages the rear brakes in this situation to "mitigate" the movement, making it more difficult to control. I think the rear brakes may be engaged by the system even when the clutch pedal is depressed. Depressing the clutch pedal would normally just make the car nearly free-rolling. The stability system may also engage the rear brakes with the cruise control on. I really think this may be one of the root causes of many of the multi-car pile-ups this winter on the nation's roadways.

What are the thoughts on using track pipes? :)

Just stumbled across this! Thanks Mike!!

I did my first couple HPDE events with NASA this month and last. I had done a couple single member days with a friend in my M5 previously. Things I learned doing a two day school:

1. 4 20 minute sessions and 3 half hour classroom sessions is plenty. You'll be tired.
2. Even if you are not thirsty, drink. It gets hot in the car, even on a cool day with your helmet, stress, mouth open, talking to your instructor. You get dry VERY quick. If you aren't peeing every hour or two, drink more.
3. Fresh socks are great. Also, driving shoes are for driving. Comfortable shoes are for walking around the paddock.
4. Don't leave your torque wrench in your other car when you drop it off at the shop. I now own two 1/2" drive torque wrenches. Thank god for a timely HF coupon.
5. You know what's better than fresh socks? Fresh underwear and shorts for the drive home.
6. As you get faster over the course of the day/weekend, bad habits that were completely OK at morning speeds wind up in a world of trouble at afternoon speeds.
7. You may end up with a conservative instructor who starts you out VERY slow. Don't get frustrated. Chances are you'll be passing people by session 3.
8. Let the Group 1 (Green) Corvette drivers pass you when they drive up your ass on the straights. Then watch them miss every apex over the course of the next lap. My instructor predicted this and was 100% correct. He says 911 Turbo guys are guilty of this too, but we had none in our group.
9. If you've got 8 sessions over the weekend with your instructor, swap out session 6 or 7 mid-second day for a different instructor and get a different perspective. Really helps make BOTH instructors advice clearer.
10. Get better fluid before your first day!!! Four people in my group had brake fade issues with stock fluid. Two of those people were at their first school.
11. Don't eat a big lunch. Your 2:30 session will be painful. I felt much better on day 2 eating a chicken caesar salad as opposed to the sandwich I had on day 1.
12. After a day of driving and two race groups, the rubber marbles bouncing off, under, around and on top off your car will sound like hell - especially in a 86 twin. Don't worry about it.
13. Get ready to spend money. Lots and lots of money to sign up for more schools.
14. If you start making a lot of mistakes near the end of the day, pull off. Little mistakes piss you off. Large mistakes bend metal.
15. Did I talk about socks and underwear?

Hope this is helpful. Your early experiences may differ of course.

Thanks for the tips!!

I have read this before and enjoyed. I read other information in this sub before racing the "AutoX" at the Wicked Big Meet at the Stafford Motor Speedway. Next weekend (on Sunday) is my first real track experience and it is with instruction at THIS event at the NJ Motorsports Park.
@CSG Mike, I would like to thank you for sharing your knowledge. I do have one question (for now at least :laugh:). Why do you say not to engage the parking brake? Is it to allow the rears to cool?

Ill just in to help. Yes. Your brakes will be VERY hot afterwards. Engaging brakes and holding them when still and hot will allow transfer of material.

I would even avoid holding foot brake when idle as much as possible after coming off. My personal suggestion is to find flat ground, let the engine run with AC on for a 5 minutes when coming off track (secondary fan will run, blowing air onto the oilpan), then lift your hood and shut the car off. Shaded spot if possible.

I was told that engaging the parking brake while hot right after a track session, would possibly lead to warped rotors.

Old post, I know. Something about this leaves me feeling, hmmm, ...violated.

You're the instructor but it's MY car.

>> no offense intended <<

Yup, it's to let the brakes cool, prevent sticking, warping, a lot of bad things.

I would once again like to thank everyone for the information provided. I had an amazing day on Sunday and advanced as a driver more than I expected. The BRZ also tremendously outperformed my expectations. The first session was paced. The next had no pace car and was what qualified me to bump from the beginner group to the advanced group. I had a 200 mile trip each way which was driven down, tracked, and back all in one day. I managed to make my e85 and 5 gallon can last the trip down and through 2 sessions before I had to switch to 93. I also melted my tires and was supremely impressed with how well they performed at temp being 320 wear.

I have some raw helmet cam footage, but I need to cut it down some before uploading.

PS... I only cooked the breaks twice and it was coming from 100 to 40 both times getting caught behind slower cars coming into turn 7 on New Jersey Motorsports Park Lightning track which is notorious for eating RWD cars (and made a full track prepped S2000 eat it twice). The first time was because I accidentally had the damn traction control on for the first session and our pace car was trying to get the other cars to catch up. Looks like fluid and pads are a must before my next time on track.

i've been just using the right sport mode button. so you guys are advising a tap of the left button too? or the 5 second hold? or the pedal dance? i'm pretty solidly intermediate.

It is that time again... I'm in the process of preparing for my next HPDE day. This one is at the brand new Thompson Speedway Motorsports Park and is happening in less than 2 weeks. This time I'm not being silly by trying to drag e85 out to far East Connecticut (although it did mean almost 10mph on the front straight of Lighting at NJMP).

I am getting ready to do my brakes, but I am struggling to choose brake pads that will be sufficient for my use of the car as a daily driver. The factory pads honestly did me very well and I am really only swapping because they now have 20,000 miles. The only aspects where I want the brakes to be comfortable is on my wallet and not biting too hard on the street, otherwise, they can be as loud and dusty as they want. Also, what brake fluid comes in this car DOT3 or DOT4? Can I use a good brand DOT4 synthetic over the race brands like Motul? Any suggestions @CSG Mike? I wouldn't mind going more aggressive in the rear as it felt like the bias was a little far forward.

@Kido1986 Why running the AC over something like running the heat? Is your main goal solely to get air on the oil pan and not worry about the coolant?

Edit: The more I read and the more I see people complaining about oil temps. The last trackday was 90+F and my temps never went up to 210. It usually hovered between 203 and 206 hitting as high as 209 while on the track. This was with Mobil 1 5W20 from Sam's Club (6 quarts at $36 is pretty decent).

@Luckrider

Yes, running the AC runs the secondary fan and blows right on the oil pan.

I run the car with AC for a few minutes, then turn the engine off and run ignition on to keep the AC fan blowing, to lower the temps as quick as possible

Are you driving with the aids on? I'd recommend you try the pedal dance before you start playing with brake bias. EBD will throw off your perception of bias.

You're probably watching coolant temps, not oil temps. I guarantee your oil temps are well over 209.

Race pads all start at roughly 200 per axle, no matter the brand. That being said, you won't be fading them like you do with stock pads. In fact, you may discover you can brake later and harder, when you have more confidence in the brakes. Same with the fluid. The cost of labor is FAR higher than the cost of the fluid itself. Get top shelf stuff. Boiling your fluid is the last thing you want on track.

Luckrider - If I am correct, you said you wanted a pad that can also be used daily. I did Ferrodo 2500, Goodrich stainless lines and Stoptech fluid. On Thunderbolt and Lightening have had zero issues, good pedal feel, good wear (still plenty of pad) and little to no fade. This is my first year really doing HPDE, so I consider myself a novice. This setup is also a noticeable improvement on the street. The 2500s are pretty easy on the stock rotors and work well enough cold.

I was watching brake and coolant because the brakes were a big concern to me. Traction control is always fully off, I don't use it on the street, but I haven't done the pedal dance yet. I'll try that for Thompson which also looks to be mostly sweepers. It doesn't scare me because I have learned to ride the edge of braking in my Jeep in snow, gravel, dirt, and dry pavement and that doesn't have ABS (a 2004 vehicle with no ABS... who'da guessed?).

I'm not looking for race pads at the point because this will probably be the last event I do this year. I am just curious if the is a good street product that will prove better than the poorly reviewed (on this site) EBC Greenstuff pads which apparently crumble on the track. The brakes stayed cool because NJMP is not hard on the brakes. In fact, coming into turn 7 was the only place I really needed them much and that came out to a short straight that shot you into a bank >180° Turn one off the front straight was long and fast enough that I was only doing 115 down to ~85 where I was dropping to 3rd and preparing to get back on the gas. I'll see if I can quickly cut some video from one of my laps.

Edit: I'm an idiot... it was oil temp, not brake. I was wrong... I checked my notes. They still never broke 240 which is lower than what people were experiencing.

One Last Edit with a clip of the laps. I wasn't pushing the brakes hard into turn one because there really was no need. That's why it is two spaced shifts to third. At this point in the day, I was back to 93 from e85 and I was down on power. I lost ~10mph on the bake straight. I've got another video of 2 laps of chasing down a Miata on 225 Ventus RS3s.

[ame]http://youtu.be/k4x5fBveNRI[/ame]

Meh... I'll post the Miata video. It is processing now.

[ame]http://youtu.be/dH65JAcKSO0[/ame]

@Luckrider if you're planning on doing at least 5 more track days, and are comfortable swapping your own pads, I'd still recommend race pads. Put them on for the track day, and then take em off and put em on the shelf till your next track day. They won't go bad on the shelf.

Luckrider, took a look at your vids. One thing that worked really well for me on the lightbulb was to be higher on it. 2/3 of the way up then as the apex comes into view cut down towards it and track out. I had higher entry and exit speeds with that combination. Stock suspension, 245/40-17 Hankook RS3. I still overbrake for turn 1 though. Hope to see you at NJMP sometime.

Like I said above Mike, I'm using Ferrodo 2500s now because I drive my car to and from the track. Otherwise, it sees very little use. Maybe an occasional run to the grocery store. Do you have any suggestions for a better pad? If I go to a track/race pad and swap for the drive home, don't I have to bed in everytime?

Yes, but the pad will naturally bed during your first track session.

I definitely think that will be my plan for next season. I think for now I am going to get some Hawk street pads and do fresh fluid. I actually just got back from a short little test of the pedal dance and I am impressed. The car pushes a little more, but it is very controlled. I did back to back runs on this tight S where the speed limit magically kicks to 55mph. I was trail braking on all runs and after running with the pedal dance, I could feel the car pull the inside just a tad (more of a drag than a pull) on the inside. The brakes felt more reactive and balanced with the dance than the 3 second hold.

By that point in the day, I was trying not to cook the tires too too much. One of my instructors, Myron, (who happens to have been the Blue BMW mentioned) pointed me there a couple of sessions prior. I was starting at two thirds, but we determined that with the low horsepower of the stock car, I could maintain velocity and cut the corner more and get back on full throttle faster. It improved exit speed and brought up my speeds on the front straight. I would love to see you at the track some day. Just point me in the direction of an even you are running.

Great thread! Just picked up an FRS and brought it to the track last weekend down here in SoFla (PBIR). I didn't see this info before I went, but will help out for the next time out. I did change out my brake fluid to Motul RBF600, and installed speed bleeders. Thanks!

I would like to once again thank you guys for all of your advice. Thursday was a ton of fun and I learned a lot about lines at Thompson. That is a deceivingly tricky track. Lots of off camber roadway and a couple of slight bumps where you least expect it.

The Akebono PROACT pads I went with (couldn't get the HAWK street pads) performed flawlessly and never experienced fade with full threshold braking, even in the 30 minute sessions with the 3 heaviest braking zones leading right into each other (fastest was ~105-50). Lesson learned, 150 miles on a new set of tires makes them VERY greasy on the first session. Also, the stock 200hp is NOT enough when the next slowest car is probably the 270whp Rotex supercharged FRS. Despite that, I was able to keep up with everything from M3s, a Spec Miata, a prepped S2000, a GTR, and even an instructor driven Spec Atom (okay... I was able to keep within 5 car lengths for all of the track till we hit the straight after I learned the line). I was passed by ever car in Intermediate 2 every session due to straight away speeds until the last session where I was actually able to pass an M3, the supercharged FRS, and one of the Porsches. The class room discussion and instructors I forced along really helped dial in my line some. I want to go back there and get a lap time and some video next time. I can think of two corners where I can nab some speed.

Great thread!

Exactly what I was loookin for! :D

Great thread. Looks like I'll need at least fluid before driving school at Mid Ohio.


Sent from Tandy 400

Typically pad deposits on the rotor which will make it pulsate and feel warped.


I come off track, put it in neutral, then roll it to move what part of the rotor is on the pad after a minute or two. Never had a problem with it.

Great thread! But I have not figured out an advice, the first few times it is better to brake down until you activate the abs?

Really good guide, definitely in for updates.

What kind of updates would you like to see?

Maybe mods that will help benefit us on the track?

That's really, really subjective...

but an oil cooler and camber bolts are nice.

For a beginner signed up for an 8 session day with an instructor, would you recommend changing out the stock tires? I know they're good for providing feedback as I've seen in autocross days but I feel like a wider 225 stickier tire like PSS would be beneficial. (Car is prepped otherwise with a fresh oil change and brake pads/fluids.)

Run your first few days on the stock tires. You'll start to get faster and once you start to lose grip because of going faster and not making mistakes, upgrade them.

Tracking obviously puts a big strain on the car. What are the differences in maintenance intervals with a tracked car and a non tracked car? How often do you change your oil/fluids/coolant/plugs?

I'd like to know why you don't recommend harnesses in OEM seats.
I've been eyeing the Schroth Rallye 3, a 4-point harness designed to anchor to the rear child seat anchor.
Your thought's on this are much appreciated.
Attachment 108236

I wouldn't ever use that. That's asking to submarine.

Also, the only POSSIBLE way for that to be effective, is if you're a midget. Seriously.

I second this.