Anyone using a 4-pt harness with stock seats?
 

How is it? Easy install? Which are you using?

I'm looking for something for light track duty in a 4-point. I have looked at the new Takata Drift type which are nice and ASM .. and also the standard Sparco 4-point.

I would LIKE to mount them without a harness bar which seems do-able with this car.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19424

I haven't installed mine yet, but I will be removing the plate for the driver side child seat restraint and using a longer bolt to attach to the rear luggage shelf for the rear attachment, lap belt attachments are typical, doubling up on the 3 point belt and latch points.

Mine is a schroth Rallye 4-point.

if you're doing light track duty then just have a little more confidence in your OEM restraint system

there is absolutely nothing wrong with a car that meets 2013 safety specs

if you find you're sliding around get a CGLOCK or just brace with your foot

Bracing with your foot is not much good when you use it so much.

Honestly I'm looking for harness suggestions, not alternatives.

I'm pretty sure the correct solution is a harness bar or stock restraint. Getting an extended length 4 point means the belt has a chance to stretch in an accident if not perfectly adjusted, or you'll submarine underneath the belt harness.

If you are really concerned with safety then get a 5 point and a harness bar, otherwise just use your standard 3 point seat belt.

the fact that you're asking about using a 4 point with the OEM seats just tells me that you are poorly informed about car safety in general

i gather you're a race photographer? I would stop trying to imitate the mistakes of others and start educating yourself on what's actually safe on a track for personal use.


Also just out of curiousity, how many Battle Endless or CSCS events have you been to as opposed to the Solosprint/Ontario Time Attack ones?

^Corrected

I'm not a big fan of harness bars. Reason is that the intent of the harness is to keep you strapped in place, and in the chance that you roll the car over, your head is basically stuck in place and the roof will crush your head first. With the oem 3 point style, it allows the body to bend sideways and away from the roof.

Now the chances of rolling a car over in autox is very slim, so a harness bar and 4 pt should be ok. But if the car is going to any sort of track, I'd highly recommend either the stock 3 point with a CG lock (and yes your left foot will get really tired from supporting you, I've had mine even cramp on really hot days) or a correct 5 point with a custom rollbar.

Just my opinion.

here is what FIA has to say about 4 points

scroll down to section 6.1 through 6.3

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/DA58BF07DFFA863FC1257690003E34B6/$FILE/253%20%2810-11%29-161209.pdf

Fixed

If you're concerned about safety you will not use a harness bar. One flip onto the roof that will cave in and goes snap of your neck because you were strapped in and couldn't move. Now if you had a roll bar it's a different story. Do it all the way or do none at all. CG lock will help you a lot. I've seen guys with stock belts out out better times than guys all kitted out.

I put a Schroth Rally 4 in my BRZ. Not too hard to install. I mounted the lap belt to rear mounts on the seat sliders. Intentional or not, there is a little notch in the sliders that allows the tab for the harness to slot in rather than actually sandwiching between the rail and the floor pan.

For the shoulder straps I used the anchors for the rear seat belt. The lap belt on on the inside, and the lower mount for the retractible mount on the outside.

Removing the side plastic bit is the hardest part. There is also a "gotcha" with the rear seat bottom. Remove the front bolt, then push down really hard in the rear and pull out. There is a tab that holds the rear seat bottom in place (it will pivot up and down on the tab).

If my belts weren't 10+ years old, I'd run them on track without hesitation. As it is, I probably will use them only for autocross.

CGLock in use here.

anybody mount here for 4 point?
http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/l/k/2/ag_13brz_latch.JPG

4 points are a waste of time and money. they arent safer than either a 3 or 5 pt harness. the issue here is submarining. if you dont allow your torso to move forward in a crash, your body is going to go under the seatbelt unless you have a 5 or 6 pt.

I agree with these guys. The "in-between" solution (harness bar with 4 points) is not a solution. Keep it stock or get a roll-bar with proper harnesses.

- Andrew

Post pic of cg lock?

http://cg-lock.com/

I have CG-Locks in my Miata and Mustang. Ran a long track day at Mid-Ohio earlier this year in the Mustang, which has much less supportive seats than the BRZ, and it held me in place very well. Never wished I had a 4-pt or 5-pt harness on track. I also have a Schroth 4-pt in my Mini, but for autocross only.

Never EVER get a roll bar like this for a DD (http://www.autopowerindustries.com/I...g/DSC_2942.jpg). I have seen one bend in half from a rear collision. The bend ended where the front passenger was and he ended up cracking his head on it. Also never run a full cage on a DD unless you like to wear a helmet every time you drive.

Way too low

And, yet, if you actually read the instructions for a Schroth Rallye 4, that is EXACTLY where they tell you to mount it.

I can't comment on the rest, but I have A CGLock and it does not work in this car. The buckle is so fat that the jaws don't go around it. Maybe with some longer screws, it's doable.

Maybe there's a newer revision, mine is probably a few years old (given to me by a friend, so no idea).

I just got a new CG lock in the last couple of months and it came with 3 different sets of screws. Can't remember which I ended up using, but it works fine for DD and AutoX for me.

Picked it up here: http://www.theracersstore.com/

CGLock works just fine. If you can't get it working, either your using the wrong screws or your doing it wrong. Mine works just fine and its almost 3yrs old.

Makes sense now. Mine was given to me so there were no extra screws. Home Depot to the rescue!

What is a DD? I was looking at these for my FR-S. Advice?

Daily Driver, get a half cage if you really want a good mounting place for your harness, if you dont want a half cage then I would rather bolt the harness to the floor rather just a harness bar if it was me.

Thanks. Was looking at that autopower one, but removing the harness bar, or even the whole thing when not on track.

see above, and PS, just google half-cage, came up empty, what do you suggest?

I installed a Schroth Rallye 4 (4-point harness) into my 2013 FR-S and love it. It uses an anti-submarine system which allows your upper shoulders to rotate slightly and keeps your hips planted in the seat. I have it mounted to the front seatbelt mounting points and the appropriate rear seat lower seatbelt mounting points with all original seat belts still in place.

After a full day on the track at Thunderhill, I have no complaints. I was held in place extremely well and was able to completely relax my body and listen to the car as I drove. I have been doing track and AX events for 7 years and I'm a PCA national instructor and I definitely recommend this particular 4-point harness.

Between the length of the straps and some flex in the seat, a full harness attached to a roll bar is definitely more secure. However, I have a CG lock in my 911 and this 4-point harness is a HUGE improvement.

Thanks! I have been getting conflicting info on the safety of this kind of set up, the angle of the rear straps and the use of the head rest to keep them over the shoulders. I was also wondering about using the rear car seat anchors up on the window ledge.
Lastly, do you keep the harness in the car at all times or remove between track days?

Thanks again.

What is this CGLock thing? I've never used one...

tie strap to stock seat slider adjuster, slide seat all the way back, strap in stock 3pt, force it to "lock," use strap to lift rail lock and slide forward.

That's as good or better than a poorly executed 4pt install... but I guess some people just want to be boy racer. To each their own, just make sure you only use it on the track where you have a bit more control over your car, lest you be t-boned and roll over, thereby snapping your neck on a city street.

I always get a little nervous when I see those schroth belts with such a low anchoring point. I'm sure they know what they are saying, but I still worry that a hard head on into a wall would end up compressing your spine as you move forward. Maybe the break away portion of the belt would change that effect though.

This is why I started this thread:

Show us your Custom Roll Cage or Roll Bar

I tried this in my FR-S. Didn't work for me, even though I have used this method in other cars. It seems there is just too much movement in the stock seat for this to work for me; the seatbelt just always loses its lock after a few hard turns. I will be buying a CGLock until I can afford a better option.

FIA says 45deg is OK. 10 is recommended.

So it looks like FIA says 45deg is OK, but 10deg is recommended. Therefore lower anchors should be ok I believe.

whether something is okay or not will be revealed during a crash


people have had crashes with bad equipment and walk away unscathed,


FIA says they test things.. and so they make their guidelines, they have their threshold levels of supposed injury, etc.

In addition to needing a rollbar (or full cage), you NEED to use a HANS (or similar) device if you're going to run 4+ point belts that don't have a break away section like the Schroth ones. Running locked 4 points without a HANS is just asking for neck injuries.

I would bet that is exactly the reason. With the inner shoulder belt tearing and extending you're not being held so firmly and compressed.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...pssttl3ibb.jpg

My setup, custom welded in roll bar with harness bar. 4 Point Schroth harness's, these are the correct belts for this application. ASM in the 3" shoulder strap, 2" bolt in lap belts. Street legal PRESS buckle.

Takata Drift harness's can also be ordered in this spec.

When I finish my seat mounts I will switch to a proper fixed back seat and add the crotch straps. I had the buddy club mounts but wasn't happy with them.

I recently got the scrothe rallye 3 for autox. It mounts the seat belt reel location in the back seat, so there's no issue with the angle (which I've read there is with the 4 in our cars). It quickly and easily breaks down (not completely removes) for when you don't need it. I'm pretty slim so the cg lock with the long buckle in our drivers seat didn't sound like a good fit for me. I've also read they're prone to breaking but I can't confirm or deny that.

It worked great at the first autox event over the weekend.

Rollbar or full cage is best. agreed. Unfortunately I will be running w o the rollbar or cage. But harness w Hans.

What harnesses? I'm hoping Schroth makes a direct fit for the twins, but nothing yet.