Need new bumper, but dealer said paint is hard to match
 

Recently, I hit a lamppost with my front bumper. The damage is not that bad, n I wouldn't fix it if my car was older. But since it’s still relatively a new car, I’m looking to replace my bumper. My car's a whiteout.

I got a quote n it's about $980 from my dealership’s body shop in Tory, MI, for the bumper only. But my concern is they kept telling me the colour won’t match n insisted I need to do the whole front end; at least the fenders if not the hood. Of course that’s more expensive, I think it was like $1800 to do the bumper n fenders. But the problem I have is I hate to mess with factory paint if I don’t have to.

I was just wonder if any white car owners have their bumper replaced/ re-sprayed (I’m sorry about your incident) n how it turned out. I do know that pearl white is harder to match, but I also believe a skillful body guy should be able to match it pretty good.

FYI, my car's a April production car, n it's been parked outside 95% of the time. So I assume the paints faded a little bit.

Also, although I now work in Michigan, I am from Toronto originally. So if anyone from the GTA area has a good body shop they recommend, that will be great.

How did you hit a lamp post?

I handled automobile insurance claims for 25 years and have some advice for you. Don't think the body shop is good just because they're at a dealership. Not necessarily true. There are some high-end dealers around who don't have their own body shops. I'm talking about Lexus, Porsche, Merdedes, Rolls, etc. If you can find one of those in your area, stop in and ask them who they use to do their body work. Don't be surprised if it's some shop off of some alley. Go to that shop and talk to them about your problem. Yes, pearl (any metallic) is harder to match that regular paint but a good paint man can do a good job. It all depends on the individual man doing the work and not the shop or where it's located.

Lol, I knew someone would ask that. Well, I was working late that night n when I went to grab my car, I was the only one left in the parking lot. When I got in my car, the windows were all foggy, but I took off anyways because I was really tired. I put it into drive since no one was in front of me (I like said, I was the only one left in the parking lot), but I didn’t notice the lamppost slightly to the front right of me n I didn’t see it because my windows were super foggy. The next thing was I felt the impact. Luckily, I only let go of my brakes half way, so I didn’t do any frame damage. N like I said it’s not that bad, u can hardly see it even from 5- 10 feet away.

But because there is a slight dent in the bumper, they will have to play with body filler to fix it. N I don’t like body fillers. So that’s y I’m looking to replace.

Thanks whaap! I also belive the best shops are sometimes those small body shops with one/two ppl. I just wanted a quote from the body shop at the dealer as a baseline, you know what to expect because i'm paying this out of my own pocket. my insurance record is too clean :thumbup:.

You can see the difference in color on the bumper vs hood/fenders on a brand new whiteout 86/FRS...panel shop also could not get the color match 100% when I had the TRD exterior bits fitted on. :bonk: ..... think it has to do with the different surfaces plastic vs metal ....seems to only be the white that has a problem.

Pull the cover off and see if you can pop the dent out yourself. Then hide it behind a front license plate bracket.

Shouldn't this be as easy as just ordering a new bumper in Whiteout? Sure the paint might not match 100%, but tbh, it'd probably be cheaper than getting it fixed and then resprayed.

Also, I doubt there's nearly as much fade-difference on a Whiteout vs a Raven...

Save your money and buy a body kit. Five axis would look nice.

The Five Axis doesn't actually replace the bumpers... It's just stick on pieces that go on top of your actual stock bumper.

Oh,i didn't know that. Well OP really did need a new bumper then.lol

I work at a Toyota Certified Collision Center and we work on most makes. A few things I feel you guys need to know.

You bumper doesn't match as it is right now. And I haven't even seen your car. You will never find a metallic or pearl bumper that matches. The way paint dries and lays on plastic is different than metal.

They are correct that 'blends' on adjacent panels will help. The reasons being: When painted at the factory they have certain settings for the air flow, which would differ at every shop. This affects the way a pearl looks. So even on a metal adjacent panel a pearl will look different sometimes even with a blend. Your eye will be cheated though because the bumper will blend into the adjacent panels but adjacent panels then may not match panels further away.

At the factory they don't paint your bumpers on or even with the car. They are painted with a close variance on a different line. They pick one and put it on your car.

What you need to do is find a trusted, well maintained and up to date shop. Look for Water-borne paint logos usually indicating that they are up to date. Have the painter come out and discuss the variant, ask him for a swatch so you can pick the match. But don't blend all those panels, it won't help in the long run.

OR

If somewhere can fix the bumper then the match will already be there. They can 'blend' within the bumper panel and you should be fine.

Wifey scratched the car-lil nick

Had some work done matched up perfectly, havent had anyone tell me where on the car it was done to date...went thru the body shop attached to the dealership

A good body shop can match any color (including Pearls) even better than the original factory match. Actually, the factory match can typically be off a little because the front & rear bumpers aren't usually painted along with the rest of the car. It's not unusual to see brand new cars with front and rear bumper covers that are slightly off on color from the body of the car.

What a good body shop will do is spray a few test cards to match the paint against the body of the car. They're basically looking to match the specific metallic flake (which are actually tiny plastic chips, believe it or not) profile in the paint. Adjustments to the spray gun can make it look quite a bit different. And yes, this is even more difficult on a Pearl paint, but trust me when I say it can be matched perfectly. You just need to find a shop with people who know what they are doing. Here's a tip-- if you were to bring a new bumper cover to a body shop and ask them to paint it, they should insist that you bring the car to them as well. Why? Well, they have no way to truly match the paint on the new bumper cover if they don't have the car as a reference to get the perfect match.

Don't have anything more than the bumper painted. You don't want to deal with the hassle of a less-than-stellar body shop experience causing more damage than it solves. My car spent a total of ~2 weeks in the body shop for a stupid little dent in the front bumper. Don't let that happen to you; find the best shop you can, and have the smallest portion possible (in this case only the bumper) painted.

This is what happened when i hit one of those white barriers while drifting. Yes i messed up but i was doing 90mph upon impact. Should i replace it? Also it is like a chunk of bumper was taken out.

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Go to where the OCD Porsche guys go. Probably a high end place or a complete back alley place as @whaap said.

You should be happy they said that up front and didn't just take your money and do a crap job.

Worst case, go through your insurance recommended shop so you have someone to complain to if it isn't done right.

Let me guess...........Fisher Body or AutoMetrics??

I go into these shops on a regular basis and can understand their point of view for this excuse of possible mismatching. Remember, there isn't a production car on the road today that has matching bumpers. FACT. The paint on the body is totally different then the paint on platic and therefore is practically impossible for it to perfectly match. Especially when there are so many shades/variances that are put into place as being acceptable.

Shops (when doing a repaint), can do multiple test or spray out/let down panels to make sure that the paint will match almost perfectly prior to even wasting the time of spraying it. If you need assistance just let me know. I'm local and can give you lots of assistance if needed that will greatly help with this issue.

Here's some helpful info on paint matching:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/body-shop-mechanical-modifications/139240-why-bumpers-dont-match-rest-your-car.html

I had my entire bumper replaced and repainted when a chick ran a red light and autometrics in Utica mi replaced it and it looks unbelievable. I guess they had to do it several times to make it completely match and that they did. It looks awesome. Can't recommend them enough

The paint isn't different. There's a flex agent added any time paint is applied to something like a bumper cover though. A good body shop can easily match a freshly painted bumper to the rest of the car. Unfortunately, there are often variances in factory color codes, so it's not always easy. Plus, the spray gun often needs to be adjusted to lay down metallic paints in a way that mimics the factory paint.

Sorry, but at the factory/OEM level, paint applied to bumpers/trim is TOTALLY different then the paint that is on the body. OEM paint (body) is applied via robots and is heat cured. Aftermarket paint or paint that is on bumpers/trim is usually done manually and is cured (or cross-linked) via hardener and doesn’t *require*baking. Paint on the body is much more durable then what is on trim as well due to this high heat baking process.
Most modern paint refinishing systems don’t utilize a flex agent as more and more paint manufacturers are designing their paint more flexible on its own merit. Very rarely do I run into a shop that asks for flex additives on their repairs as I think it is really being phased out.
Yes, a body shop painter can match paint more precisely when doing a bumper replacement compared to the match that comes from the supplier. Regardless, 3 stage pearls are much more challenging then dark solid colors.

Let me first say that I used to work at a body shop. That said, flex additive is absolutely required for flexible parts like bumpers. Always has been and probably always will be, unless they come up with a paint that can flex on its own without cracking. With today's technology, that's not possible...and that's why flex additive is used. Of course we always baked everything we painted, whether it was an entire car or just a bumper or trim piece. It's part of the curing process and any shop that skips baking is a hack shop.

And yes, I realize how new cars are painted. The bumpers are also painted by robots and heat cured. The only difference is that the bumpers aren't painted with the cars. Other than additives (like flex additive), the paint is exactly the same. Research it yourself if you doubt me. The information is out there.

Yes, things have changed since you've been away. Today's waterborne paint (base) doesn't require baking fyi.

So please post up this information then as proof....

Especially some that says that bumpers are baked at 400 degrees. :D

+1, I'm also in the insurance business and more often than not, the shops that the dealerships have in house or utilize are garbage. They take weeks to do what amounts to work barely better than Maaco (or even worse). A couple of the bigger, corporate owned dealerships with body shops are really bad; tons of rework issues and skimping on proper replacement/repair of parts/structural components of the unibody.

The best shops I know of are the ones that look like holes in the wall, but when you head out back, you see some serious shit. Their repertoires often include incredibly impressive demo and show cars.

Also for you guy saying that the factory bakes paint on urethane, plastic etc parts are really clueless. How would you bake a plastic part and not have it melt? It's true the unibodies/doors/hoods are cured using heat, but that same logic doesn't apply to plastics.

For curing modern paints, you can force dry with heat, but it's not the same type of heat applied by OEMs to metal panels. Additionally, a lot of body shops force dry using UV light as the catalysts used in modern urethane and acrylic enamels are UV-sensitive and can be forced cured in very short periods of time.

Who said I've been away? I no longer do it for a living, but I still do body work/painting. BTW, do you think solvent-based painting is obsolete? Seriously? LOL, lots of shops are still using solvents. Water is just now starting to become popular due to environmental concerns. Are you really that out of touch with reality?400 degrees? Who said that? Try 140 degrees F for your typical lacquer paint. And yes, lots of cars are still factory painted with lacquer, including my new Audi.

Automotive plastics are baked at 140 - 160 degrees F. Nothing melts at those temps. This should be glaringly obvious to anyone in the business. Well, I guess being in the insurance business doesn't help much with the technical aspects of actually spraying a car.

I'm sorta amused that we have an auto detailer and an insurance guy acting as authorities on painting cars. Maybe if we had a few more guys who have actually painted cars professionally, we could have a great little debate! LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564846) Who said I've been away?

You did:

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564431) Let me first say that I used to work at a body shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564431) I no longer do it for a living, but I still do body work/painting.

So, if you are still involved in the body repair trade, but not officially working at a shop, where do you perform your work? Just curious??

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564431) BTW, do you think solvent-based painting is obsolete? Seriously? LOL, lots of shops are still using solvents.

No, I don't think solvent-based painting is obsolete at all. Every body shop, not matter if it’s using water-borne or not is still being cleared with a solvent clear. What is obsolete in many ways is lacquer. FACT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564431) Water is just now starting to become popular due to environmental concerns. Are you really that out of touch with reality?400 degrees? Who said that? Try 140 degrees F for your typical lacquer paint.

I never said anything about bumpers or trim? I’m referring to factory applied paint on vehicle bodies that is baked at levels between 250-300 degrees. Are you doubting this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shadow (Post 564431) I'm sorta amused that we have an auto detailer and an insurance guy acting as authorities on painting cars. Maybe if we had a few more guys who have actually painted cars professionally, we could have a great little debate! LOL

What’s amusing is the mentality of certain bodymen /painters and why the management choses to keep them back in the shop and not let them converse with the customer. If by what you’ve explained qualifies you an “authority” on the body repair industry then it’s time for me to hang up my hat. If you want to keep throwing mud then by all means go ahead, but I’m going to stay on the path of actual facts.

Now to regurgitate what I already said: The paint makeup used on bumpers at the factory level( 2K Polyurethane ) is totally different then what is used on the metal bodies (1K or melamine). One is activated with heat and the other isn't. One is electrostatically applied and the other isn't. This is just one tiny component as to why paint on trim may not perfectly match the paint on the body. The other is that trim isn't painted at the same location that the bodies are painted at and are painted by OEM suppliers that could be on the other side of the planet from where the vehicle is assembled/painted. There is such a huge acceptable variance for color matching (at the factory level) that there could literally be multiple shades of colors on your car.

I meant baked at the temps you guys were referencing for metal parts(300-400 degrees F), and I did mention force drying with heat. Not all plastics/urethane parts are baked by OEMs, and some body shops have baking booths as well which they used to force dry as I mentioned.

I'm also familiar with the actual process of body work and spraying since I have a lot of hands-on experience doing that as well.

The only one trying to act as authority is yourself since it seems like you're trying to tell everybody else that they're wrong.

Shops do bake or provide an additional heat source to heat the paint... It helps to cure it. While this may not be true for waterbased, this is true with the urethane paints

Also... it heavily depends on the paint that is being used. While the temperature may need to be at 400 degrees, some amount of heat is used to help the adhesion of the paint after it is sprayed. this is not saying that it is necessary to bake it.

Heat also helps solvents evaporate faster. This can speed things up a bit.

Painting metal versus painting the plastic has its main difference in the fact that when it is on plastic, a flex agent is applied. That way when the plastic flexes (however much it flexes) won't crack the paint.


I went to a specialties shop where they do old classic restorations, airbrushing, etc. They painted my rear bumper from where someone hit my car in a parking lot and left me 2 nice screw dents and scratches.

They were able to paint match and blend it fine. They also used heat lamps. So while they did not "bake" the bumper, they still applied an external heat source.

Also... I saw someone mentioned that the there are shops that use a solvent based clear....

I'm not really sure if it's just my misunderstanding or what-not...

but... Clear coats are/should be 2 part urethanes. It is a part A and part B type of thing. It cures from a chemical reaction.

I'm not sure what you mean by solvent based clear but, the clear coats from my understanding are always a 2 part clear coat.

This one may have less damage and is only 240 and in white

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=07678490075

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Until the other guy mentioned something about 400F, I don't think anyone ever mentioned a specific temperature for baking painted parts. I certainly never made that claim.

BTW, I obviously have no way to know what "all" OEMs do when it comes to baking plastic parts, but I'd say that the majority of them absolutely bake them. It's really all about curing more than anything else.

Don't look now, but if you're debating my words, then you're also telling me that I'm wrong. Don't be a hypocrite. All I'm saying is that it's almost comical that a guy who cleans & waxes cars and a guy who works for an insurance company are both acting like authorities on painting cars. What we need in this discussion is to hear from more people who have actually painted cars as a profession, that's all.

Reading comprehension might not be your strong point, so let me clear this up for you: By saying that I "used" to work for a body shop doesn't mean that I don't still do body work or spray cars. It simply means that I don't work for a body shop anymore. Does that help you out at all? Do I need to explain it further?

Depends on the work I'm doing. 95% of body work can be done right in my own garage at home.

Hate to break it to you, but LOTS of shops are still painting with solvents. Like I said, water is just now starting to become popular for environmental reasons. Of course its just a matter of time before water becomes the norm, especially as the tree huggers continue fight against solvent spraying.

As for your lacquer comment, I think you need some help. You can't say that something is "obsolete in many ways" because that doesn't make sense. It's either obsolete or it isn't. If something is obsolete, it isn't used anymore. FACT. And here's another fact for you: I have a new Audi that was factory painted with lacquer paint.

You never said anything about bumpers or trim? That's a laugh riot. This entire discussion has been based on bumpers being difficult/impossible to match to the car body.

LOL, do you think that washing & waxing cars somehow makes you an authority of body work or painting? Since you like facts, here's one for you: I have experience painting cars as a profession. You're a car detailer. You have experience washing cars and waxing them.

I think you need to do some research, especially on the OEMs. Like I said, you seem to be very much out of touch with reality. Here are some more facts for you:

1K topcoats aren't being used very often anymore. Last I heard, it was less than 2%....and that's not in North America.

2K urethane clearcoats are very popular in Germany and even with a few Japanese OEMS. In the U.S., the unions are opposed to them, so you don't see 2K urethane clearcoats very often here.

There are plants in Europe that are using both waterborne clearcoats and even powder clearcoats. I believe BMW is currently using powder clear in one of their factories, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

The vast majority of "aftermarket" paint used by body shops in the U.S. are 2K urethane clearcoats, athough the base coat can vary.

Same thing happened to me last night... 2 AM at IHOP and I backed into one of those waist high yellow poles... Needless to say, ruined my day early.
No dents or anything, but I have a few deep scratches and a bunch of smaller ones.

all you need is a good bodyshop. give them the color code. and the bumper. and they will paint. it'll match pretty damn close, as long as they are reputable. they're off their rocker if they want to blend the entire front end...you only need to do this on metal/aluminum parts because the paint adheres and appears differently. bumpers are easy. i've had numerous done by just giving the body shop the pieces, the code, and they called me when they were ready.

Tell me, after looking at my pics or inspecting the car in person. Unless pure highly trained, no ones been able to find where it was blended and re shot

DRAMMAAAA

Bringing back an old thread, cuz these people here seem to know their shit...

I'm considering getting a clear bra on my SWP bumper/hood after spotting my first rock chip. I know the debate has always been getting the clear bra done, or just repainting the bumper down the road.

This being my first car with pearl paint, I've know it's really hard to paint panels and have it match to factory specs. My question is, will even a Subaru dealership not be able to perfectly match a bumper (or any panel) to the rest of the car? Seems like your local body shop is totally out of the question, I guess I didn't realize how hard it would be to color match. Is it just the case of finding that really experienced shop that would match the thing near factory?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17698
^ that
or dish out the money to have a pro fix it.