Subaru Version of Toyota FT-86 Confirmed...But Not Yet For U.S.
 

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...ot-yet-for-u-s

Subaru’s version of the upcoming sports car codeveloped with Toyota is definitely a go.
“There will be a Subaru version of the car; we have not yet confirmed it for the U.S.,” clarified Subaru of America director of corporate communications Michael McHale, to Motor Authority at Subaru's stand at the Los Angeles Auto show.
Some outlets have recently speculated that a Subaru version of the Toyota FT-86 won’t arrive after all, but the project is moving forward with a yet unnamed, uniquely Subaru version under development that’s “coming along quite nicely,” said McHale.
Just what might be the differences between the two? Although McHale wouldn’t talk specifics, “The Subaru’s going to be a little bit more Subaru-like, and the Toyota’s going to be a little bit more Toyota-like,” he said.
Subaru has done the majority of the engineering work for the FT-86 and will build two distinct versions of the vehicle—one for Subaru, the other for Toyota—in Japan. While it’s still officially up in the air as to whether the FT will have all-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive, it would be expected that a flagship sports car would exhibit Subaru’s core qualities, including all-wheel drive with a horizontally opposed ‘Boxer’ four-cylinder engine.
The related Toyota FT-86 concept, shown at the Tokyo show in October, was rear-wheel-drive and powered by a boxer four.
Subaru has plenty of time to decide; the new sports car isn't expected to bow in production form for another couple of years.

I find the bolded part interesting. I hope that is referring to the Subie version and not both as I thought the RWD Yota version was already set in stone. :iono:

I am pretty sure that is for the Subie version. Because in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbK8vMhSUU0 Tada talks about a FR layout.

Haha, that's definitely not the name I gave this thread but that's good too

how come the talks of subaru's version is so scattered but yet never seen a concept? no formal quote from a CEO, chief engineer or any higher up people? for sure if subaru will have their version will be AWD cuz, that is the bread and butter of subaru.

I was really hoping they wouldn't. If Toyota decided not to sc or tc this engine, and it does actually come out with 200hp or less, and 160lbs-ft of torque or less, I won't be buying it. I want to see the EJ255 or EJ257 in there, settling of course for a sc ej253

engine swap? :iono:

Get the RWD toyota and swap the subie engine.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156

I think it's a moot point though because Toyota has already hinted there will probably be more powerful versions and TRD involvement:

"Though a naturally-aspirated powerplant is fitted to the concept car, Tada-san says higher performance versions are on the cards. He even hints the car may launch with both standard and high-performance versions.

Not STI, but TRD, he joked adding: "Those sort of 'customised version' -- we have something of their sort in our mind. So please raise your expectations."

they are really pushing that lightweight concept, makes me think maybe it will be under 2400lbs, that'd be dreamy :wub: haha

The new idea of light weight is right around 3000lbs......2400lbs is what it will weigh once its stripped and prepped for track use. 2400lbs straight from the factory I think not, just be happy if its under 2900lbs. :sigh:

very nice video. makes me quite hopeful. :D

-Mike

I think this is more than a bit inaccurate, but I guess we will eventually find out.

That video gets some really nice angles.
The girl said that the wheelbase is at 2540mm or exactly 100in.
That is about an inch and a half drop from what that had stated previously. They're moving in the right direction. This car should be pretty nimble

CTR is 200 hp and weighs less than 2700 lbs. I will not buy the FT-86 if it weighs more than 2600 lbs in stock form...

Which CTR? Don't know of any that make that power/weight, because all that have 200+hp weigh more than 2700lbs, and the EK9 has 180hp.

Feel free to buy a type R if the FT isn't to your taste.

2600-2700 sounds just about right to me, and I'll only be happier the lighter it gets.

but the toyota yaris is 2300 lbs and is only 1 ft shorter... what would make it so heavy?

rear differential, drive shaft and rear wheel drive transmission are longer and heavier due to thicker gears that can withstand more trq... that alone i can say +/- 200lbs not bad for 2500lbs, but since this will be a handling car chassis rigidity will be key

http://www.tempests.co.uk/newcarimages/CivicTypeR.jpg


I don't want to buy a Type R. I would if I did. I prefer RWD on a sports car. Just wanted to show that 200 hp doesn't mean heavy weight...

I think the car will be between 2700 and 2900 lbs. The Subaru will weigh more. 2900 lbs is still very light for a modern sports car, especially when the boxer engine will give it such a low center of gravity. Amazing handling front engine cars like the e92 m3 weight well over 3500 lbs. Modern suspension can easily make a 3000 lb car handle better than an older 2500 lb car. With regard to acceleration, a 2500 lb car will obviously be much faster than a 3000 lb car, but 3000 lbs is still light. With a trd sc or something, this car will be very quick.

So wait. Subaru of Japan hasn't even announced it but someone from Subaru of America is saying to a motoring "blog" it's for sure? I'm still not believing it. Doesn't mean it won't happen (because now I'm almost certain it will), but we're still dealing with false information.

Maybe the EK CTR was under 2700 lbs, but the next two gens certainly do not. They hover around both sides of 2800 lbs with the latest one flirting with 2900 lbs.

Stop comparing apples to oranges (i.e. a brand new car with an older car; different layout; etc). It's not going to work.

No one's buying a Yaris to wind the piss out of it and possible slam into a mountain side pretending they're the ultimate Tofu delivery person.

The FT is going to be a sports car. And in this day and age, you don't get to be a successful car company if you sell a sports car that won't protect the owner from itself. Safety equipment and parts bin sharing (to keep costs down) will keep this car from weighing in anywhere close to what everyone here thinks it will be.

Taken.

:happy0180: LOL! You're welcome.

that's not true, many people are buying yaris's and turboing them, and at 2300lbs they are pretty friggin fast with any form of FI; shamefully FWD, but still...it also has 5 star frontal crash rating (well the hatch does anyway) so it's unbelievably safe, unbeknownst to most people...

I highly doubt 2.0L engine, RWD transmission components, and 'safety' will land an extra 600lbs; but perhaps your final point makes sense, parts bin sharing; as well as someones comment about chassis rigidity.

yeah the subaru is kinda hard to believe right now, no formal announcement, no prototype seen on the road or on nur ring and no concept seen yet. all thats fueling the fire is the bloggers that half made up and half just cuz, they are a subaru fans that are hoping for a coupe STI.

I've seen hundreds of Yarises on the road, and I've yet to see a turbo'd one. While it's entirely possible that there are people out there who will turbo a Yaris (I'm sure there are people who will turbo a bar stool, if they can), I'm not sure this is the demographic Toyota had in mind when they designed, engineered, and marketed the Yaris.

The FT-86 may or may not be the same way. While it's possible that Toyota wants to tap into today's young tuner market, it's also possible that they're going to aim it towards the older, lumpier, foggier-visioned 40-year-old tuner market that misses their old AE86.

I should start by saying I'm really excited by Toyota's FT-86. I was raised on Toyota. My parents had a Tercel, a Van, an Avalon, and a 4Runner. My first car (and I do miss it so!) was a '97 Corolla. My sister's first car is a '00 Corolla. And my cousin and I have been bugging my Dad for years to fix up his '75 FJ40 that's been rusting in the garage since he moved to Boston from Colorado.

That said, if Subaru did come up with an AWD version and Toyota didn't, I might just have to buy the Subaru and debadge it on day one. A RWD toy is fun, but it's going to be my daily driver, and winters to tend to suck in New England. Given the assumption that Toyota's not going to come out with much better than a base version, and that they're not going to come up with an AWD version, I'm pretty psyched about the prospects of an STI coupe, too.

How many is "many?"

I'm not disputing some people are doing this, but I'm willing to bet it's an infinitely small number of people in proportion to those who buy the car as a basic means of transportation. The FT is being aimed at the enthusiast. Very different scenario. Especially considering it will be priced within range of those just getting their driving licenses whose parents have more money than brains.

i think it's more likely they spend the same amount of time designing both cars to be as safe as possible...

-Mike

The current gen NC Mazda MX-5 is only 2400-2500 lbs depending upon trim level. Convertibles are also heavier than coupes due to needing more chassis bracing without a fixed roof. So this car can still come in under 2700 lbs no problem, but only if they focus on making it as light as possible which is what Mazda engineers had to do with the NC redesign to keep weight down.

I'm with Hoffo on that one. I've always maintained that hardtops were superior sports cars to convertibles for that reason. Not only the extra bracing required, but a convertible that has a power-assisted roof is going to gain an even larger amount of weight from the roof mechanism itself. A hardtop convertible is probably the absolute worst, in this regard.

I also agree that it's going to take an extreme focus on the part of Toyota and Subaru to keep the weight down. The Miata's a two-seater, after all, and this means that its safety requirements go into protecting two people, not four. I think, at our most optimistic, we can imagine the FT-86 weighing as little as the MX-5, but no less.

if it's lighter than my MR2, that's enough for me.

-Mike

I am not comparing. How can you compare something that exists with something you know almost nothing about???

I am trying to reach a reasonable assumption through using a point of reference.


Yes it is going to be a sports car. As Toyota says, a lightweight one. It's up to us, potential customers to judge if they succeeded or not. Hoffo is right using MX-5's weight as an example. Being a coupe, FT-86 has more potential for a lightweight chassis. Boxer engine helps too as it is a compact and light engine structure.

The critical factor is the excess luxury which in FT-86's case is not needed. If they try to keep it simple, it will be lightweight.

It might be aimed at enthusiasts, but enthusiasts are not a large enough market to sustain a car. A lot of people WILL buy it as basic transportation, a lot of people will buy it because they want a good looking coupe to cruise around in and a lot of people will buy it because it is (will be?) economical and efficient. So, it is pretty much the same scenario, depends on what angle you look at it form.

Toyota probably didn't have the tuner market in mind when they brought over the Yaris, but there are lots of tuned Yaris/Vitz all over the world, not just in the USA. Not to mention in their home market there is an insane following, it even has it's own one make racing series AND TRD makes a turbo kit/ dealer ordered turbo version of the RS model, so i'm thinking they probably were not ignorant to the fact that tuning the car was a distinct possibility.


That does not weigh less than than 2700lbs.

Correction, 2,733 lbs (1,240 kg) you were 33 lbs off. :bellyroll:

Fair enough, but my position is that the speed with which safety regs move these days (therefore affecting standard equipment which affects weight) is so fast that you cannot use a car that came out in 2002 as a reference point for a car that will come out 9 years later. Furthermore, one if a sporty, FWD hatch and another is a RWD sports car. Again, apples to oranges.

It will be relatively lightweight, for 2011. It will not be lightweight compared for 1990, or even 2000. The Japanese Toyota officials have already dropped a proposed weight of what, 1300 kg (2820 lbs)? That is a rough estimate at best, so there is still plenty of opportunity to knock off some weight here and there, but less than 2600 lbs is not happening. Period.

You make a good point, but it doesn't change the overall picture. Overwhelmingly, people buy a Yaris for transportation and nothing else. It has an almost non-existant enthusiast population (relative to total sales). The FT-86 will have a much greater population of enthusiasts relative to total owners, and that will be reflected very quickly in the aftermarket support it garners almost right away after its release.

...in your corner of the globe.

Care to elaborate? I'd love to know just where the Yaris will somehow be a bigger hit with enthusiasts (again, relative to its total number of owners) than the FT.

Not to argue against your point at all, White Comet, but here in NY and NYC there are quite a few Yaris' clubs which have some nice rides. However, youre right when you say relative to total sales. The FT86 will be more of a sports car than a Yaris could ever dream to be.

You will always have more Nissan Z enthusiasts than you will Nissan Versa entusiants (analogy).

Hey, I have zero problem with people wanting to argue. That's the beauty of forums. If there are more Yaris enthusiasts than I suggested, call me wrong and I say "great!" for Toyota for creating a basic commuter car that somehow caught on with tuners.

But it doesn't change my statement about the FT going to have way, way more aftermarket and enthusiasts owning it.

In Euro spec weighed 1200 kgs or 2650 lbs...

Granted, but it also had just exactly 200hp. :iono:

If the FT weighs about the same and has similar hp, what is the problem?


Never said it will be a bigger hit, I'm just saying it is what it is. it could never win a numbers game because of the amount of Yarii sold and you know that. The fact remains that Lots of people everywhere (especially in the pacific rim) tune the yaris/vitz and there is a lot of aftermarket support for it. Don't loose focus of the initial premise.