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Harness Bar
Anyone know of a harness bar for the BRZ/FRS, or plans for one?
I did see mention that Sparco might be designing one, but nothing has been verified. |
With pretty much unusable rear seats (at least more normal humans), it'd be pretty easy just to pay someone to weld a bar across the B-pillars. I think that'd be cheaper and just as effective, though hard to sell the car later if you did that.
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I hear ya. I'm not a big fan of permanent mods. I could make my own, but wanted to see what was available on the market first.
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There is a JDM vendor who makes a B-pillar reinforcement bar you could probably wrap harnesses around but if I remember it had a fairly small diameter.
Another option is take out the rear seats and figure out something you can do in the trunk area. I don't think a rear strut bar mounted to the two strut bolts would be strong enough. Another option is the Schroth Rallye 3 which has a single rear attachment. I bought one of those. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=391673 What do you need the harnesses for? |
Please for your safety do not use a harness bar.
1. Full Cage with correct Harness 2. A Schroth ASM system in a street car. |
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Can you share some clarification on the safety aspects of this? While I realize that a harness bar is not a roll cage, how is it a less safe alternative for mounting harnesses then the Schroth 3? Not trying to be negative, just looking for info. I had assumed that a harness bar would be a better option for mounting harnesses because it would keep the harness mounting locations in the proper place to reduce the likelyhood of back/shoulder/neck injury. Also, I'm not looking to cage the car at this time or any time in the near future. This is solely for occasional track days. A harness bar does supply a nice secondary location for a camera too, but that's incidental. |
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I guess I don't understand what is wrong with the harness bar. Ran one for years on track days on the Z06. As long as the car's roll structure is good and its a real harness bar and the harness is a proper one WORN PROPERLY, I don't see a problem. The Rallye 3 sounds good, very easy to deal with and probably what will end up in both the BRZ and WRX over the winter.
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A harness bar with the standard 4 point harness will not keep you from sliding out underneath the belt in a front end collision. A 5 point would but then again you still have issue in a rollover without a cage.
The Schroth ASM Quote:
Is the best option for street cars that see autox and track days. You get protection in a front end collision as the ASM device breaks loose allowing for some slack. But still works as a harness to keep you planted in the seat for track days or Autocross. The ASM portion of the belt in the linked pictures is the plastic buckle portion behind the head rest on the right strap. That is what breaks open in an accident when the belt is needed. Everyone has what works for them. That is totally fine, just want to make sure everyone knows there are options out there like the Schroth that are safer, and cheaper when all said and done for a Street/Non-Caged Track Car IMHO. |
I appreciate the information. But to be clear, I never specified a 4 point harness, you just assumed. I plan to run an anti-sub belt with whatever setup I go with. The harness bar only accounts for 2 points of any harness, the shoulder straps. Then the lap belts mount to the floor, most likely at the same location as the oem 3 point lap belt.
For your own info, I'm very familiar with harnesses, cages and appropriate safety equipment, have raced off-road for many years. |
Don't all the schroth 4-point harnesses come with their ASM belt? I like the idea of being able to mount a "real" 4 point harness (I'm not in love with the schroth quick-fit harnesses, only out of personal dislike/distrust) without having to install a full rollcage in my street car. I like the idea being the SEMA R-GTI rotating harness bar, but I'm not sure how permanent it is. I understand and can agree with the OPs dislike of permanent modifications.
In case this is difficult to understand, the bar is attached at the B-pillar and rotates rearward and down to lock into the latch assembly growing out of the center console (the red thingy is the latch) Obviously, for this application, its a bit ridiculous as far as the amount of work going into it for bracing and such, but the idea is pretty neat. Somehow they manage to maintain the usage of the rear seats of this GTI, but since our cars don't really have a useable back seat anyways, its not as big of a deal. http://www.auto-power-girl.com/photo...ma-2006-21.jpg |
^^ now those would look nice in the frs.. more padding though
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This is pretty much what I was thinking of, although the bar that Kestral posted is pretty cool.
http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/graph.../HARNBAR_2.jpg |
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Sent from...somewhere? |
complete waste...
either do a roll bar, bucket, 5/6pt harness. Or do a CG lock with stock belt. That's my oppinion. |
OP are you planning on keeping the harness bar in or only for track days? Are you doing autocross or HPDE?
Assuming it's a permanent install for HPDE purposes: If you have a harness bar it's safe to assume you're running harnesses. If you're running harnesses I hope you're using a fixed back racing bucket. If you're using a fixed back racing bucket and get into a roll over, your body is forced to remain perfectly up right while the roof above you is subjected to crushing forces. Not a good day for your spine. This is why it's smart to add a roll bar when doing seats/harnesses, not just a harness bar. A roll bar also makes for good attachment points for a harness bar. A full cage is not necessary, nor desired for any car driven on the street. You can bang your unhelmeted head on one of the overhead bars and it's lights out. A stock vehicle is designed to soften the blows of impact during a crash. Your body is allowed to conform around the 3 point belt, because you're expected to be cushioned by air bags. Oh and I wouldn't run harnesses without a head and neck restraint. If you fix your body in an upright position the only remaining part that is free to move forward in a frontal impact is your head and neck, subjecting you to a basilar skull fracture. Head and neck restraints are now required in I think both SCCA and NASA racing. This all may seem like overkill to someone not familiar. It certainly did to me, before I researched it. Here are the configurations I would consider safe: 1) Beginner to Intermediate HPDE: Stock, wear a helmet 2) Intermediate to Advanced HPDE: Roll bar, 5/6 point harness, fixed back racing bucket, head and neck restraint, helmet (swap in the seat only for track days) 3) Wheel to wheel racing: Full cage, 5/6 point, fixed back, head and neck, helmet, fire suppression, fire suit/gloves (all required for w2w racing anyway) Personally, I don't think I'd be this cautious for autocross because of the lower speed and zero traffic. I hear there have been rollovers in autocross before though! |
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You make some valid point and have some good info. My plan is to install and leave the harness bar in the car. Primary use is for track days/HDPE. Possibly autocross but nothing firm there. My desire from this is solely to have something keep me in the seat better. That's it. I've run track days with just the standard 3-point in my WRX and I had way too much movement in the seat. I do wear a helmet as mandated, no issues. Again, coming from offroad racing I'm pretty familiar with roll cages, harnesses, and associated gear. I do have a neck restraint, fire suit, etc, but I'm really not a fan of a HANS device, even offroad. And yes, I've been in a rollover before too. So for the time being I'm likely to try out a track day completely stock as you mentioned wearing just a helmet and see how it goes. |
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Another thing besides the cg-lock that might help is the JDM knee pads/braces. |
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Have you tried a CG-Lock? I've been curious if they actually work and are safe to use. |
Hi Guys,
My company (Essex Parts Services) is very deep into our harness bar design. We will likely show some pics in the next couple of weeks. It is a very stout design anchored at four points. It has an adjustable bar height to match different seat/driver heights. It will allow the OEM seat belts to be retained. I don't want to get into an endless debate over the merits of a harness bar. I'm just answering the OP's question. I personally have used harness bars in my past fixed roof cars. Most recently I had one in my C5Z06. For my Miata, I went with a four point rollbar because it is a convertible. In my opinion, every time you go on track it's a calculated risk. A lot of things can happen out there. In my 13 years of doing track days, I've seen far more cars stuffed into walls or other objects vs. rollovers (that said, rollovers happen plenty of times!). For me, I would rather have the car control gained from having a proper race bucket and harness. Also, a harness allows you to run a Hans. After seeing so many cars stuffed, I refuse to go on track without one ever again. We are also working on seat rails. We have a Sparco Evo II in our car on the prototypes currently. |
I have CG-Locks on my Miata and Mustang for autocrossing, and did a track day at Midohio a few weeks ago with the Mustang. IMHO the CG-Locks work very well, I wasn't flopping around in the crappy seat in the Mustang on track at all. I've had a full race harness (with roll cage and race bucket) in another car in the past and used Schroth ASM 4-pt harnesses in several cars as well. I'll definitely be putting a CG-Lock in the BRZ, and for HPDE/PDX/autocross use I feel that is adequate for casual use until I step up to a roll bar, fixed race seat, and 6-pt harness for more serious track days and time trials.
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Take a look at Draco-REX's thread below http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15051 |
I'll keep those in mind as well. They do look like a reasonable option.
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Stock belts: just one day on track and just four 20-minutes sessions -- my knees hurt, especially left one. Could be much worse if it was two-days event. I'm first in the line for the harness bar. |
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I'm definitely interested in the both products! |
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All of this needed to be quoted again due to the importance of it. Anti-submarining is bad and having a normal 5pt without a roll cage can be deadly if/when you end up on your lid. The roof of the 86 isn't exactly "robust". |
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This, anything else and you might as well slap a shower curtain rod in there. |
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CG-lock and knee padding are on my shopping list. |
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I'm planning a BRZ built right now and contacted Schroth about their products, as I've used their Rallye 3 in previous projects. SCROTH's US distributor does NOT recommend Rallye 3 in the 86's!! Jeff Paulk got back to me pretty quickly, but this was his reply: Quote:
If you are going to use them, the belts really should go through the headrest bars, not around them, to help hold them in place in case of serious impact. (Page 15, Point 3: http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/R...structions.pdf) Not flaming, just posting this as an FYI as safety items are so critical to get right. ~M |
We use the Essex Harness bar and Takata (Shroth) "Race 4 Bolt" belts with an OMP Pista seat.
Essex may not claim it to do so, but it stiffened up our chassis and they're quite precise. Bar is bolt in and fitted within 1/16" Rear seats still fold down and 4 race tires can still fit in the back. |
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as far as #2 is concerned, or options available for a track/street car, i like this advice - although why the seat swap? if the concern for fixed back seat is a roll cage, it is provided in this example right? i thought the greater problem would be hitting head on cage (even padded) in the event of an accident. (??) is there no great solution to just put in the car and leave alone for street and track driving? |
IMO you don't need fixed back seats. You can use the stock seats if you have a rollbar that supports them (does not get in the way). I have Recaro Sportsters which I believe is what you'll find in the JDM STi as well as other high performance cars.
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Lesson one in capitalism: Where there is a market for a product, there will be a supplier of said product. |
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Yet the people at McDonalds don't say, "don't eat this, it's bad for you." And my mans said, "for your safety do not buy this." And then sells it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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