Interesting take on 2012 GT-R
 

Just seems like the writer is having a bitch just because. I'd like to see what he says about a car that costs 10x lol!

If we got the GTR over here for the same price as you guys (we pay $180k and our dollar is stronger than yours!) I'd have one in a heartbeat.

The article reads like a case of nostalgia goggles. "Why did Nissan send me this supercar instead of a 23-year-old clunker I fondly remember from my childhood?"

Yeah, like $55k is any more accessible for anyone than $77k or $90k.

yeah he sounds like he is suffering driving that car, i can't imagine what he would be going through... poor guy... :paddle:

With respect to the increasing price and reduced sales, If it's almost as expensive as the Porsche it's meant to substitute, then the guy kinda has a damned good point.....

In fact, a lot of his review is on point, and many more famous and accomplished auto journalists have shared that opinion. It's funny to see all the comments on the article, because while all of them bash the author saying that he doesn't "get it", it's painfully obvious that they don't.

The GT-R is a marvelous car, but you know, It isn't the car that is the GT-R. It's gained a lot, and perhaps in doing that, lost a lot as well... changes that some would say are necessary to justify it's price tag. Which really is rubbish, because it really is a performance bargain.

This writer is quite biased and lists all the bad points of the car, and even more. He states that the dash is like a truck. That's not true at all IMO, and there's a lot more things that aren't true.

Well said. I think what he is basically getting at is that cars are evolving so much that we are losing touch with the old way of 'man over machine'. I can't say I'd turn down a GT-R, and wouldn't for those reasons alone. It's still an amazing car. I think he has a point but should have written it as an op-ed instead of a review on the 2012 GT-R.

Makes sense! Automatic transmission and mostly computer aided, the GTR practically drives itself! With that being said, if given the opportunity between and R34 and an R35, I'd take an R34 in a heartbeat. I want to shift... :burnrubber:

When your at the top haters gonna hate. Almost every supercar has a DCT yet they still bitch and complain about the GT-R having one with no manual. The Veyron, the 458 Italia, the LF-A, and the Aventador. All of which I bet is terrific cars to drive.

I think we're beginning to reach the point where technology is starting to poke it's ugly head at us. It's a delicate subject in which people are able to have extremely different preferences in different areas on different vehicles.

So the question is: What is your preferred balance on a performance oriented system taking over control of certain aspects of the car?

Some find no enjoy in a system helping them drive faster or taking control of the car. It gives a certain detachment or de-sensitization from the experience leaving them underwhelmed.

Others enjoy outright performance. The car being able to take them to the very limit of what it is capable of.

Funny, reminds me a little bit of the constant (Auto vs. Manual) Transmission Debates.

The same can be said about any car that's progressed. The old lambo's would kill you in a heartbeat, the new ones are boring in comparison. The best Evo was the 6.5. Rude, crude, didn't take any shit from anyone.

R32 gtr's are nothing on a r35, let alone an r33 or r34. It's evolution. I've driven all of them, and the r35 is a quantum leap ahead of the pack. It's typical Japanese, everything just works. Maybe people want that 'I'm going to die' feeling when driving their car?

$90k car not selling in a tanking economy, and it's because it doesn't have 'soul'? FFS...

It isn't anywhere near as expensive as the Porsche it's supposed to compete against. The 911 Turbo starts at $137k, the GTR has at least a $47,000 price gap and it still roasts it performance wise. To be fair to the GTR it should be compared with the 911 Turbo S because of the AWD drivetrain, which is $160k or $70k more than the GTR.

At even $90k the GTR is an incredible buy. Look at it's performance versus an $88k Acura NSX.

The author is just a disgruntled Porsche salesman.

Bingo.

The same reason skydivers skydive, basejumpers basejump, and the reason most of us love going on those exhilarating amusement park rides so much. It's the adrenaline.

Think about it... Go on a bullet/magnet train and you'll feel pretty damn safe. Drive a racecar (just a reasonably fast one ~450hp) to 250km/h and you'll feel completely different. Drive something like the GTR to the same speeds and you'll feel safe where you didn't in the racecar. You'll feel like it's NOT going to kill you.

And guess what? Safety FEELS boring. THAT'S why the *real* enthusiasts want something raw, want something made with passion. Not something that is controlled by computers, not something that feels like it's normal for a car to go that fast. We want it to feel like we're breaking some sort of barrier that we shouldn't be.

The LFA does not have a DCT.

which by deduction ...would best to assume this post is not credible :laughabove:

For point of argument, it's close enough.

It's not a stick shift.....

+1 Snaps

This is the difference between the european gentleman racers and the japanese adrenaline racers.

A million times this. Before the GT-R came out, I was hoping it would basically be an R34 Z-tune an a 21st century body.

It's not about it lacking a manual, it's about the overall package. Many reviewers have said THE SAME thing about the Mclaren MP4xxxxx, and why thought it's fast, the 458 is still more appealing than it. In that same breath, I'd take a 430 Scud over a 458 any day of the week. in a modern context, the Aventador "gets it" but compared to the older Lambos, the "widow maker" appeal just isn't there. The LFA.. is somewhat of a dichotomy.. but I think the thing that irks GT-R fanboys the most is that Lexus "Got it"... at least according to Evo and quite a few others.

:word:

This is where you are wrong, or just plain ignorant to reality.

I agree, it will always be an ongoing debate. I believe technology along with the science does play its role whether it's making our cars more safer, more efficient and more faster.

However what defines that thin line in making a car that much more worthwhile is that user experience no matter how much technology there is. That will always hold true with anything that is related to the consumer and especially when it comes to automobiles.

Yeah, the GTR was released at the worst time but its reviews dominated only b/c the driver didn't have to do much compared to its competition.

Drivers want options and if you offer that, it'll satisfy both sides.

Even this dude got more soul than the GTR! :bellyroll:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...dance_club.gif

Matador, do you remember an old article posted here about one of the Prince Engineers of the 280z (I think it was Yoshihiko Matsuo) talking about how the GTR lacked that fun factor. I was trying to find it but no dice.

:thumbsup: Overall package indeed. The GT-R is hella capable when compared to the stopwatch. While I haven't driven one, friends of mine [including those in the auto media] that have driven it all say about the same thing; it's capable as all get-out but it's not very involving to a driving enthusiast.

If A-to-B is your goal, the GT-R nails it in terms of quick per dollar. If driving emotion and involvement is your goal, the GT-R simply isn't on your radar. The latter perspective is where the Yahoo author is coming from. Personally, that perspective resonates positively with me. It doesn't mean he's throwing a bitch-fit for the sake of making a name for himself, he's simply pointing out the GT-R is solely a performance car and not also a sports car*.

*performance car = quick against stop watch
*sports car = visceral, raw, involving for all senses, man/machine oneness

this post sounds inconspicuously like a segment from top gear... Hmmm...

:bellyroll::bellyroll:

I tend to not use the term soul, because I think it's a cop out, and I know cars don't have soul. Character and Involvement is what I'd say. I do recall that article, but I'm not sure if it was the GT-R or the new Z he was talking about. It might have been posted by Axel and deleted along with many other post when he left :iono:

It's not this is it?

Holy sh*t, I was way off!~ :bonk:

Yeah, that's the one! I thought of that article b/c he mentioned the control factor and being over-complicated. Even though he was talking about the Z, I feel a similar manner with the more advanced GTR.

Big deal it's a single clutch type. My point is it's not a true manual either genius.

I'm pretty sure if Nissan wanted to they could've produce a GTR with RWD and a manual that's 300+ lbs lighter. It would aslo still be a bang for buck car since the price would drop significantly.

could they? i mean for starters they didnt so it doesnt matter but either way the car is huge and heavy so they need to reduce the slip angle as much as possible and without awd the gtr would loose a lot of its awesomeness. its almost like you are describing a ctsv

Well, unlike in the USA, there's a million R32/33/34's on the roads here and they're very cheap. Interestingly, all 3 are slower than an integra type r around the streets.

I've got lots first hand experience in all 4 models, do you?

im not talking about the GT-R's. im talking about the lambos. the old lambos wanting to kill you and the new ones are too boring? that's straight out of hammond's review of the aventador....

anyways its preposterous to call a car like the aventador "boring" unless you're going for ratings like top gear. sure you can say its less exciting, etc. but to say its boring? thats complete bullshit...

That is where we got screwed! Going through life not knowing what it's like to drive a Skyline here in the States.

Interesting you mentioned it's slower than a Type R around the streets!?! Focusing on the R34 and it being a DETT, how is that possible? Keep in mind, I'm from the outside looking in so very curious to know.

I've only seen an R34, literally once, here in San Diego and it was a RHD Motorex car. It was definitelly a sight for sore eyes!

I can tell you one thing. GT-R (R32~R34) is nowhere near slow against Type-R. I have seen & driven stock GT-R (R32 & R34) to fully modded GT-R (R32) in Japan. Even tracked it few times. Only thing got close or beat it was Silivia, Altezza (that Altezza was ridiculous.), Mark series, & SC (which was another ridiculously tuned)

GT-Rs are fast... but GXi, GTE, & GTS do lack power. Hey what do you expect from 1.8L engine (90hp)

That is what I was going to assume, a non-GTR model.

with the usual magazine racing at least people can hide it. with this though im pretty sure nobody has had the pleasure of objectively driving a gtr, let alone driving one in order to compare it to the likes of a lfa or any ferarri. i would imagine the gtr is pretty fancy but so is the evo x and that at least feels like a drivers car. maybe thats the illusion since a computer will only let me get so sideways but its still every bit as enjoyable so maybe the gtr can do that as well

A lot of fools in Vancouver got suckered when they imported Skylines. Everyone seems to assume that they are all GT-R's. There are a TON of slow-ass RB20s around.

Same holds a bit true for the Mk3 Supras. Some people who didn't do their homework ended up importing 'Twin Turbos' that were 1GGTE, not 1JZGTE, powered. 210 hp from a twin turbo 2.0L L6. Japanese insurance special. There's one that has been on a dealer lot for over 3 years!

People think gtr's are godly like cars just because the gtr race cars kick ass on the track. They're not. Stock they are heavy, under powered, and slow. Not saying they aren't gods when tuned, but stock they aren't all that. The reality is you got to pour some serious cash into them to get them even up to stock evo standards.

Talking stock, an Ek civic type R is quicker around Tsukuba than an R32 gtr. And that is on a track, let alone a street.

:clap: Imagine the look of horror when they find out they've got the wrong spec! How much does it cost to export one from Japan to B.C?

I have relatives in Vancouver and have been a handful of times and didn't any Skylines.

Oh, so you were talking about a stock GTR! I'm kind of in shock and disbelief but at 280hp/293ft-lbs of torque, 3400lbs, 0-60 @ 4.9 secs compared to the MKIV Supra 320hp/325ft-lb, 3500lbs I could see the difference in stock trim.

But this goes against Ichi's experience with driving the GTR.

i get what you are saying but tskuba isnt really a power track. im curious though as to where you got your information

2JZGTE has waaaay more power under the curve than an RB26DETT.

1JZGTE and RB26DETT are a better comparison.

Have a look at what's out here:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/se...inAsk=&maxAsk=

R32/R33 GTRs are about as special as JZA70 Mk3 Supras. They don't suck balls by any means, but the Skyline gets a TON more hype than a 1JZ-powered Mk3. Thanks Gran Turismo! :thumbsup:

I've never had a chance to track any of the mentioned cars, but my $0.02 is that you have been with some very sick GT-Rs or a seriously hopped up civic. No way a Civic R is faster on the street than an R34, driver talent not withstanding. R32, debatable. R33... I could see that happening on some roads maybe.

I'll bet ya my left nut I've driven more GTR's than Ichi lol!
They are dime a dozen here.

And no one leaves them stock, just an exhaust change gains a stupid ammount of kw's. On the street you don't get the top end power advantage.

Even the Japanese spec supra is quicker around Tsukuba than the R32 gtr. You guys got bigger/better turbos than us, so bigger advantage.

Personal experience. Japanese cars are dime a dozen here.

I have worked in the mines and power generation all my working career. My mates all have high powered evo's, GTR's, sti's, supra's, ect... I brought houses.

As I said, you guys don't have them, and thanks to fast and furious, you guys treat them like gods!

My brothers old R33 gtr was a beast when running right, but what a temperamental bitch! Used to get chopped all the time by honda's let alone evo's on the street. His evo 9 is 10x the car.... STOCK!

R32's are over 20 years old!!! Don't forget that......