Help buying Suspension parts
 

Looking to upgrade my suspension use case would be Comfy/NVH good enough for a road trip plus track usage(HPDE). Figure about 5 a year . Tires at the moment are 215 pilot sports 4 on stock wheels. Planning on upgrading at some stage to a 17x9 255 tire such as a yoko A502. I won't be going to slicks

Coilovers:
RCE SS2s I was also considering the tarmac 2s plus the 949racing topmounts but I think for my use case the SS2s will do just fine. SS2s will come ready to install with front camber plates and rear top mounts

RLCA:
SPL Titanium not sure what makes a good RLCA other than I would like something that doesn't use an eccentric bolt for the camber adjustment.

Rear Toe Arm:
SPL Adjustable Rear Toe Arm With Eccentric Lockout. I am pretty sure the stock toe arms will hit 0 degrees with the drop I plan to run but I do like the idea of replacing the rusty stock ones and replacing the eccentric bolts with the lockout

EndLinks:
SPL Pro front long length and SPL pro rear endlinks. They sure do look pretty not sure how they will hold up to the Irish weather and roads. I think the whiteline setup or something similar might be a better buy if I am honest

Open to suggestions on all the parts listed. Ride height wise I want to stay as stock as possible. I think RCE recommends a 25mm drop on the SS2.

Also please let me know if you think I should buy anything else. Maybe Roll center parts for the front and or rear. I wasn't sure if it was needed with such a small drop.

Thanks all

I would recommend the Spl toe arms just for the reason that you can get the eccentric lock out so that the toe doesn't change after hitting curbs at the track.

Yeah I don't see myself removing them from the build. WOOPs I forgot to write the part I was thinking of getting lol. List now updated. Thanks for that

I just ordered RCE SS-2 for my '23 :)

Honestly I don't think you need any of the other stuff. I time trial and tenths of a second matter to me, I'm just getting the coilovers, nothing else. Lowering the car 25-30mm will put the rear camber in a decent place for cornering grip, and not too much to give "camber wear" as long as you keep toe-in minimized.

IMO aftermarket LRCAs and toe links/etc. are overprescribed and usually unnecessary.

Are you using the stock endlinks as well ? I would think having rear camber adjustment is important rather than just hoping the camber is good window after being lowered.

I see you're using a 2023 so your car is basically new mine not so much lol. Adding new control arms and toe links also help to freshen up the suspension. Hard to say how much effect that has but I have to assume replacing a near 10 year old bushing with a rose joint is going to do SOMETHING lol

I've never had my toe get knocked out from pounding curbs at the track with the factory arms on my '17, even when I went over the back edge of curbing as 12b NHMS and bent two wheels :O

Yeah, factory end links. On the '17, rear toe wound up at -2.7 to -2.9, pretty much where I would want to set it for street track anyway. See where the '23 winds up soon enough, honestly as long rear camber lands between -2 to -3.5 and within 0.5 L/R I'm not worrying about it. Front camber is a lot more important anyway.

Bushings can last a LONG time. Factory bushings were fine in my '17 after 5+ years, 82k miles and maybe 48 track days. Won multiple time trial championships with all factory arms and toe links. It's not like the factory bushings are super-compliant, IMO they do a good job.

It sounds like you’re saying in your case there was no need to upgrade not necessarily that the parts don’t add any benefit.

What do you expect front camber wise from the SS2 Zdan ?

I think the benefit would be small relative to $ spent. In my case mods add classification points and I would have to had ballast weight. 40 lb. for non-factory control arms and 40 lb. for heim joints in place of factory rubber bushings.

I asked and they said up to -3.5, that's what I'm aiming for.

Just wondering is it possible to get to this values in Kw style coilover without additional camber bolts between strut and knuckle ? I'm on a fence right now between gettinG ST XTA with upgraded spring rate, importing something from US (looking only at RCE SS1 or SS2 at the moment) or spending even more on KW Clubsport over here in EU :bonk:

80 lbs of penalty ballast weight would probably not be worth it.

I've had my OEM toe adjuster slip...after a rally-x. :) A bit of a different use case but yes it can happen. Most people do keep the OEM toe arm.

I am a bit particular about alignment so adjustable rear LCAs is important to me after a coilover install. I do like having just right. However, at times that I was at or near stock height (for instance when I was rally crossing) the factory arms were fine. I think my car is also lucky to end up at similar left/right settings without adjustment, which doesn't always happen. Uneven settings would bother me.

In terms of bushings, it is noticeable in my opinion...more so the toe and trailing arm than the LCA. Unlikely to make you much faster on the track, but it is more confidence inspiring and feels more connected in a good way. The stickier the tire, the bigger the difference.

All of the above are things you can add later, too.

- Andrew

With our coilovers and KWs, we often use another set of the factory lower bolt in the upper hole...so 2 sets of the lower bolt per side. This helps you get about -2.2 degrees even on stock topmounts, so with camber plates in addition to that it's not difficult to get -3.5.

- Andrew

Personally I am just going to bite the bullet and pay all the fees :( Its the custom valving that makes these worth the hassle they aren't just off the shelf ST shocks but in terms of camber the ST setup with camber plates and the RCE SS should be the same

Thank you for posting... I was a bit curious if the -3.5 value needed anything bolt wise.

Is using the lower bolt in the upper hole the same as "crash bolts" I have not done any research on these things because I was planning on leaving all the bolts OEM and using camber plates.

If I was to keep everything as is bolt wise do you think I could still hit -.3 with the SS2 camber plates.

Yeah that's also referred to as the OEM crash bolt (the crash bolt is just the same part as the lower bolt). It's secure and works well.

All stock yes you can hit -3 degrees.

- Andrew

Ah, just ordered up a pair of the lower bolts for my upcoming install, had forgotten about that! Prefer to maximize negative camber with those to have max range of adjustability up top. Hoping for -3.5...

Yes me too...should have mentioned that it's arguably better to get more of your camber from the lower mount. :)

- andrew

Double post.

Datapoint, with the kw variants (with kw tophats), I was able to get 4.1 on the passenger side and only 3.5 on the driver side, had to use a spc camber bolt on the lower hole as well to get it to 4.2. When maxing out the top slotted hole check if the solder is in the way, on some of mine, I had to Dremel some off for the bolt to sit clean.

PM me if you want to use oem endlinks that is of proper length and clears the coilovers bottom as well as side wall. These 2 issues usually feel like power steering is lost when binding happens on turn 7 at the glen.

Speaking of end links I ordered whiteline ones today. Whiteline UK were running a sale so I pulled the trigger.

Thanks, will see how it goes. Planning to use the '23 factory links. Worked on the '17, with some rubbage of the inner wheelwell, more so in parking maneuvers than at the track.

What is the reason behind sticking with stock end links ? It is just to save money

To flip this question over, what is the reason to use aftermarket end links, is it just to spend more money?

I tend to take a minimalist approach, if the factory stuff works fine, I use it.

Remove preload off the swaybar and if you run a aftermarket bar its easier to make adjustments as removing the stock end links can be a pain.

I observed "preload" to be pretty much nil when I installed Eibachs on the '17. some of the factory links were pretty rusted on tho... Installed Eibachs set soft front stiff rear and still had understeer so no need to adjust...

Well for under 300 bucks for a set of end links I am not going to complain if the benefit is small. I already saved a bunch not getting the toe arms/LCAs but I get the feeling I will get the LCAs at some stage. We will see how the alignment goes.

If you are going to get toe arms just get the SPC's. They are almost half price of the SPL's and do the job just fine.

Thanks for the suggestion. They look a lot like what superpro and whiteline make.

My main reason for wanting to switch was to deal with the eccentric bolt possibly slipping. After some more research and chatting with friends it seems that the stock eccentric bolt setup is fine. So I really have no need for toe arms.

There is a 30mm-ish difference in height on the endlink mounting point of the KWs compare to factory strut, hence why a shorter endlink is desired (if factory endlink is used, it will hit the lower control arm), of all the after market links I tried they have clearance issue for running high camber (say -3.5ish or more). They bind on the lower body of the shock or against the side wall. Oem-styled (non adjustable) endlinks tends to be more form fitting. I don't corner weight balance and set my coilovers the exact height side to side so pre-load is negligible, the rubber bushings in the suspension is good enough for me.

Something like a JRZ where it retains the same endlink mounting location can use the factory endlink just fine.

Yeah I see there is a lot of information out there on what end links to use depending on the sway bar you run with the KWs

I just went with KLC179 which is 225-250mm in length. Seems to match the OEM endlink at max height. I plan to run the OEM bar so I think these should work. We shall find out lol

Is this true for the RCE Supersport-2? So perhaps my plan to run factory endlinks might not work...


Yeah, that's the route I'd want to go for max clearance for max camber...

Just got feedback from RCE that '23 endlinks will work fine with Superstreet-2 coilovers.

I might just have to ask them myself but do you have any idea if the GR86 end links are different to the GT86 endlinks ?

I do not know...

Front endlinks are the same for 1st and 2nd gen.

I used OEM on my own 1st gen with SS1s. We've also used Whiteline, SPL, and a custom set I made for myself.

Clearance is tight no matter what, so keep an eye on it! There are a couple of variables that make things different car to car (ride height, camber at the hub, camber from the top mount).

- Andrew

Thanks for updating the thread. Whiteline makes a few different sizes but I feel confident the ones I got will work especially if OEM does.

Thanks again :burnrubber: