interest in a 5x114.3 front hub?
 

Hey guys,

I've been looking for a 5x114.3 front hub and unfortunately the PBM and Megan Racing hubs are both discontinued.

The only current option is the T-Demand hubs, which are only sold as a full set(front and rear) and will run you a big chunk of change.

Rear hubs are a very simple solution for this platform, as 08+ STI rear hubs bolt right on, and having PP Brembos paired with 08-17 STI rotors solves the brake rotor issue.

That being said.. all that's left is a front hub

I've been in contact with company who did a 5x114.3 conversion hub for my e36 a few years back

The quality is top notch and the car was tracked without any issues. The hub is still going strong and not showing any unusual signs of wear.

He may be interested in attempting to get a 5x114.3 hub conversion going for this platform, but he wants to gauge interest and what price point people are willing to pay.

No point in putting in R&D if the market isnt there.


pros:
Opens up wheel options and ideally would be a full replacement solution that still allow you to run proper fitting wheels.

Cons:
running oem base brakes becomes a little tricky and you would need to run some form of BBK



That being said... how much interest is there for a 5x114.3 front hub conversion?

If you are serious, let me know about a price point so I could relay the information to him to see if what the community wants would even be possible

Before naming price, consider that OEM subaru hubs are roughly $250 each

imo, pbm and megan stopped selling them because there was such a lack of interest.

when the 86 first came on the market, there were very limited 5x100 options everywhere. the 5x114.3 hubs seemed to be introduced to combat that newness of the alternate standard. but once it blew on the scene, there's tons of options in most lineups now.

since around '14, i've only seen a few builds where people really wanted 5x114.3. less than 50 overall. usually they want to run wheels they already owned.

i think a single custom as-needed option is going to be the best option.

the company making the hubs for PBM stopped making them(they went under around COVID times) and they haven't found a manufacturer since.(i spoke to PBM recently about this) I'd assume the same for Megan Racing, though I havent confirmed with Megan Racing.

There was enough interested in 5x114.3 recently for WiseFab to invest in making a 08+ Sti front hub adapter for their front knuckle/arm kit. Unfortunely this solution only works on their front knuckle and that whole kit alone is beyond overkill for 95% of owners


The issue with single custom, as-needed options is the price. One-off things will always be expensive, because the company has to make money for the R&D somewhere.

5x100 options havent really grown since the release of the twins. If anything, they have decreased because subaru gave the VA WRX 5x114 hubs 2 years after the release of the twins, therefore reducing the need for more 5x100 options.

Prior to that, every wrx had 5x100 alongside a bunch of other subaru models(many of which were loved by enthusiasts).

now the only enthusiast models using 5x100 are the twins which don't sell nearly as well as any of the wrx models ever did

I have a garage full of wheels for my drift car that I'd love to swap interchangeably without using conversion spacers.

Despite the lack of interest on this forum, if there's a serviceable 5x114 front hub (swappable front bearings) for a decent price there will be interest from the greater public, they just have to market it and partner with the right vendors.

The price of T-Demand hub is very high! I would also like to find a similar solution for them but cheaper!!

Here is some information I can provide as I was one of those originally interested in doing 5x114.3 conversion but at the end, decided to just stay with 5x100.


-I did buy the PBM 5x114.3 front hubs. Originally they cost $260 + CA sales tax w/ free shipping. Then it was bumped to about $280 and ended around $320 before they stopped production during COVID if I recall. It was also always backordered and took approx 5-6 months before I got my set. I ended up reselling my brand new set to someone else who actually needed.


-The investment to actually get the 5x114.3 conversion is at bare minimum of around $400 on top of the cost of the hubs for those who do not have PP brembos (which is a good amount of twins)

W/ PP brembos, iirc, you can most likely just redrill the rotors and get STI rear hubs like you stated and it should work (min cost $150 for the rear hubs)

W/O PP brembos, one will most likely need to go 06-07 wrx 4 pots (roughly around $300 min for used set unless you want to shave material off stock calipers) + new brake pads (around $75 min for a new set if 4 pot) + STI rear hubs ($150 min reman) + new set of front and maybe rear KNS gravel spec rotors ($350 min or $200 min if you redrill rear rotors), which totals around $875, or $350 w/o 4 pots and redrilling rear rotors.
The hubs diameter face was also bigger than stock which required it to use gravel spec rotors (STI sized inner hat size needed on rotor). I did a lot of searching to see if there was a 5x114.3 rotor option that will just bolt on and isn't a special rotor that cost a lot. Unfortunately, KNS gravel spec is the only one I found that fits PBM hub diameter.


-Serviceability is also a big factor to me as one of the reason I sold them. I had a feeling that PBM will discontinue or have trouble when it came to manufacturing them when I had to wait at least 5-6 months to receive them. It didn't look like the bearings were going to be easily serviced when I had them in my hands and with my car being a daily driver (also driving through really bad roads), I wanted to be able to easily replace the hubs or just the bearings if needed.

In my honest opinion, for these to be sold successfully

-Hubs needs to be widely available to purchase at all times for a long period of time or at bare minimum, easily serviceable bearings
-The hub diameter should be the same as stock so it does not require a caliper/rotor/pad change so stock rotors can be redrilled instead to appeal to those with non pp brembo brakes
-Priced around $300 USD (PBM was always selling out due to their price point at $260)

Thanks for the details and insight! I genuinely appreciate it.

I'll be straightforward and honest right away.. I don't think a pair of hubs would be possible at that pricepoint without sacrificing some quality(which from what i understand, Megan Racing, PBM AND T-Demand all have had quality/longevity issues). The goal is definitely to be cheaper than T-Demand, alongside being way more accessible.

the product we'd be working toward would have to match OEM quality at the minimum for us to even consider it. Cant have hubs that are failing after 30-40k miles... hubs should last much, much longer than that for a simple daily driven vehicle. I want to throw the hub on my car and be worry free.

A serviceable bearing is definitely on the table and would make things cheaper on the maintenance end of things.. especially for race teams who would prefer to service things as often as possible

As far as the rotor hats and re-using oem rotors.. it's physically impossible to re-use the oem rotors because a 5x100 brake hat wont fit onto a 5x114.3 hub.. or at least from the measurements ive taken, it's not possible. I'd have to double check.

If there was enough meat on the oem hubs, we'd be drilling into the OEM hubs(and rotors) and re-using them. It would have been done a long time ago.

that being said, we would be able to offer re-drilling services for any rotor that would fit(id have to do research on this subject to see if any vehicle uses a rotor with a large enough hat that we can buy for cheaper and re-drill)

The Rotors you mentioned run $100/ea at this point, which seems fairly affordable to me for any high performance rotor, but obviously we'd prefer to have a rotor option that is more readily available(such as another rotor from a different manufacturer that we can redrill, or ideally something that matches almost dead on)

Im also dipping my toes into adapting a hub from another vehicle(ex: using an STI hub) OR creating a solution to use 2015+ Legacy 4cyl rotors(same diameter as OEM brz but a tad thicker)

there's A LOT to consider here so im gathering as much information as possible and thank you again for all the info youve provided.

Understandable. The price point is honestly depending on a lot of other factors. The $300 price point is what I'd like to pay but if it has higher quality and the price is slightly more, I would still get it. I just don't to pay as much as the wisefab kit just to get 5x114.3

There are not many people that have the PBM/Megan/T-Demand hubs to even say whether or not they have longevity issues. At the current moment, the person whom I sold the hubs to are still running it (been about a year). Not sure how many miles he actually got on them.


It's hard to say about making an oem size hub on 5x114.3 pattern. IIRC PBM hub face diameter was 136mm. OEM was 133mm iirc. It maybe still possible.


The rotors I mentioned are affordable but also costly/too much for just street usage. I bought my blank rotors for around $80 front set where as it would barely just be 1 rotor. If you made a set of hubs to have similar diameter as the PBM, you maybe able to get away with redrilling the front rotors and also shaving the inner hat by 1.5mm all around (which should make it fit the 136mm face). Of course that will leave the inner hat rotor with approx 6mm of material which I don't know if it will affect it structurally. Also, I did look into the 2015 legacy 2.5i rotor option as well back then. Not sure how well it will do as it is 4mm thicker which can cause pad drag but in 5x114.3 pattern.

i do have a friend on the east coast who has had premature wearing with the PBM hubs and is currently having wear issues with his t-demand hubs after putting around 40k miles on em. Though he does put the hubs through their paces with tons of drifting and running aggressive wheel offsets.

but i do consider the PBM and Megan Racing hubs to be fairly cheap hubs that werent of very good quality.. especially at their price point. They may be fine for daily driving but under abuse, it's not the first time ive heard PBM hubs prematurely failing.

I'm hoping we can have a solution at the same cost as OEM hubs.. or at least VERY close to it (around $500 for the pair).

I may experiment running legacy calipers, as the brackets and everything seem to line up perfectly on the oem knuckles. The piston specifications are also EXTREMELY close to that of the BRZ.(legacy caliper pistons are 0.1" larger in diameter)

Best part about legacy calipers is that Centric remans run about $45/ea... which means we'd be under $100 for both front calipers

This would essentially give the customer a readily available, affordable rotor option that is stock sized, and a readily available caliper that is bolt on and affordable.
The customer can still run 16's as well if they want to.


assuming we can get the hubs at around $500.. youre looking at around $800 with brand new rotors all around(redrilled rears, legacy 2.5i fronts), brand new front calipers, new pads, and obviously the hubs.

The buyer could technically save some $$ and send their oem rear rotors out to get drilled, or drill them out with a template that would be very easy to provide. The holes doesnt have to be extremely accurate, but with a proper template, a good centerpunch and a good set of drill bits, it would be very easy to drill them out.

I'll still hunt for a solution that wouldnt require new calipers, but so far that's the cheapest option I could think of that would have endless, readily available parts and doesn't really require anything fancy.

I would experiment and see if the legacy 2.5i rotors will work with the 06-07 wrx 4pots. The 4pots will at least retain the stock braking bias. If it works out, then it would be one of the solution that will come out around $400 + the front hubs + redrilling rears w/ sti hubs.

You'll need to shave down your brake pads to get it to work.
The main issue is that the Legacy rotors are thicker than the 5x100 rotors

The legacy calipers should retain the stock braking bias.


small update:

I spoke a bit with the company that is willing to help with this.

If we want things USA made and surpass OEM quality, it will be expensive.
If we want a serviceable/replaceable bearing, it will be VERY expensive.

to give everyone an idea on what to expect for pricing if we pull through with a serviceable hub/bearing that is motorsport quality:
These are NA Miata hubs made for endurance racing and motorsport use that have a serviceable bearing.
The price is for EACH hub, not a pair. To be clear, this is NOT the company I am in contact with.

https://www.miatahubs.com/product-pa...nt-enduro-hubs


Unfortunately, the company im in contact with can't really beat the prices we've seen so far... it may be possible to get to the pricepoint of the t-demand hubs if we produce enough, but without much backing I dont think it would be feasible.

We are still exploring options of using an STI hub, but unless people are ready to pay big $$$ for a pair of hubs, a full blown machined, independent hub is out of question

Honestly, if I could pay that for a front hub in 5x100 and it was rebuildable for 139, I would do it. Tracking my car I have been through 4-5 front hubs already.

I can bring it up to him, but id have to check with the track groups and 86cup to see if it's something they would be interested in.

He's all for supporting the platform if he can

For STI hub, maybe a new knuckle that retains the stock usage of the control arms and toe arms (kinda like PBM)? Yet does not have an indent face so it can support both stock hub or STI hub? This is assuming that the STI hub and stock hub mounting locations are the same (which I am not sure about). I know wisefab has a kit that helps convert their knuckle from taking stock hub into the GR STI hub. Looks like there are two adapter plates that move the mounting locations but unsure as there is no installation manual.


Edit: nvm found the installation manual. STI hub and stock hub has two different mounting locations. Wisefab has the knuckle designed to take both with the conversion kit.

I spent the money on BroFab E30 front hubs and rear MiataHubs, they were something I was absolutely willing to spend the money on because stock Miata hubs are time bombs on track, especially with aero/big tires. The cheaper alternative to the MiataHubs is BroFab machined BMW E30 front hubs/wheel bearings and BroFab rear machined Toyota Yaris hubs pressed into stock wheel bearings. Doing either of these options doesn't require changing brake/rotor setups since the 4x100 pattern is retained, so the cost is just the hubs and bearings.

The fact that the stock Miata hubs and front bearings suck and the number of people seriously tracking Miatas means they've got a good market size since it is very much a safety thing at minimum.

For the BRZ it seems the advantage is wheel choice and that is about it, for track people being that 5x114.3 wheels in 18x10 or 17x10 with the right offset are available and relatively cheap.

Requiring a different knuckle would preclude a fair number of track people from the market due to most rulesets requiring stock knuckles/uprights.

I guess the best route here would be to figure out how to buy the front bearing without a hub pressed in (or machine some other existing stock hub that would work) and machine some existing stock hub to fit into the front bearing otherwise you've got an expensive product with a small market.

Karcepts is an example of CNC'd hubs that press into a stock wheel bearing and BroFab sells the machined Yaris hubs, as pricing data points.