They are amazingly beautiful cars. Just saw one when we went to the OSU game this weekend.

I dunno, to me the Supra is more GT car, the 86 more sports car. Lightweight (relative to today's vehicles), rear drive, front engine, manual gearbox, and little if any frills (like sound insulation). Focused on the pleasure of driving, where as a GT car is a bit softer, and focused on long legged cruising..

What spoils it from the old-school definition is the back seat. No matter how useless it is it is still there. It is a coupe but not all coupes are sports cars.
Engine placement and drive wheels really never came into the definition before.

While this is true, I feel that it is a close enough direct competitor to the Miata.

It should be granted a waiver to be called a sports car.

And that is how definitions get diluted!

By modern standards it is a "sports car" there is no disputing that.

I personally will never see it as such though.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CarefulOld...restricted.gif

I think its just more to do with how they're built...

The Supra is built with luxury car standards (Since BMW), the 86 is built with economy car standards (Subaru/Toyota)....


Doesnt make any of them any less "sports car" than each other. They were built to a price point and the quality of the cars represents that.

This ^
The categories are based more on the attributes of each "type" of car than their quality.

The one definition I will fight to the bitter end is when people say "well it is used in motor sports so it is a sports car". NO that does not make it a sports car just a car used in sports.

Camry is not a sports car even though they are used in NASCAR.

This is most certainly not a sports car
http://www.bteracing.com/assets/2459...97235194_o.jpg

The supra has "GT" amenities but in my opinion it definitely is not one. It is not comfortable, or easy to drive casually. I would take the 86 in every situation beside an actual race track. I found the weight of the engine is extremely noticeable at regular speeds. It does have less body roll than the GR86, it is also a lot stiffer and "slammy" on imperfect roads. Whereas the GR managed to be stiffer than the 1st gen, but also much more comfortable. The Supra was built to look straight ahead and drive as fast as possible. Visibility is just garbage besides anything ahead of you. It is a very fast and aggressive engine/trans combination that you just can't drive casually. Unless you like putting around, shifting thru 8 gears at 2000rpm as soon as you feel the boost come on. You can't casually rev it out.

When someone asks if the GR is a supra, or what GR is, the simple way i explain it is the GR Supra is the race car, 86 the drift car and the hatches the rally cars.

Well, they use the name anyway. I'm not sure you can say they actually use a Camry.

Most of this makes no sense. Both cars are capable in their own right, they have different demographics for the most part. You say you would rather have the Supra on track, but then say "The Supra was built to look straight ahead and drive as fast as possible." Never driven on track before have you?

He's just an Italian driver.

EXACTLY!

No, but i have driven the Supra enough to form an opinion which I thought I'd share considering people are debating if its a sports or a GT car. Was it wrong to use the 86 as a point of reference on the 86 forums? My thought is how can the supra be considered a GT car when it is more aggressive than the 86 which is an entry level sports car. Obviously they are for different demographics. I like hearing the opinions of others with more experience. If you don't want to add anything why don't you fuck off with the elitist attitude.

Questioning your opinion makes me elitist, got it :w00t:

no, degrading someone's opinion because of lack of experience, instead of offering a counterpoint in good faith based on your own greater experience does.

Did you misunderstand "look straight ahead" for "drive straight ahead"? It was a very general statement, and I referenced visibility after which I think is an important aspect of comfort if you're going on a "grand tour"

I really don't understand why you have to come out like this and offer nothing of discussion. I've never even interacted with you before.

NASCAR is just a production car image/decal painted onto a universal NASCAR bodyshell and chassis. I think the only real differentiation is the engines used are specifically made by each manufacturer.

None of the NASCAR machines are based on cars used in production, Just its likeness. And for Toyota they had no V8 Toyota nameplate, the sportiest thing at the time they entered NASCAR was the Camry so they used that lol. Corolla was a wimpy econobox, and the Avalon was and old geezer mobile. Cressida had long been dead and Crown, Century, MarkX, etc were only JDM nameplates. And i dont think they wanted Lexus associated the the "Murican heart and soul" NASCAR as they were battling the germans in the luxury tier.

Heck didnt they show off a NASCAR Supra around the time the Supra was revealed?

I should have known better than to question the classification of cars in 2022 using a standard from 30 years ago! The classes have been so watered down and crossed over that you can tack pretty much anything onto a model now and make it stick.

Using the OLD standard the Supra would be closer to being a sports car with it's two seats but be pushing GT status because of the features and amenities.
The 86/BRZ would not qualify as a sports car because of it's 4 seats and would totally qualify as a GT with it's features and amenities. Even the "bare bones" FRS has far more than an old school true sports car ever would. They would only sell a handful of them if they didn't!
Sure the Supra's are "better" but the FRS/86/BRZ's are not exactly spartan even in comparison.
Anybody that drove a real sports car from up to about 1990 understands.

Go drive one of these and then try to tell me that the basest of base FRS is not well equipped.

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content...0-1024x555.jpg

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...?fit=940%2C626

https://erclassics.b-cdn.net/media/c...-t2171-037.jpg

Ford, Toyota and GM all build engines but they are to NASCAR specs and have a lot of standardized parts. The bodyshell does have some variation in it from car to car as (at least in the new 2022 bodies) the OEMs are allowed to match them closer to the the actual street car, if a little stretched.

But basically NASCAR is almost fully in a full "kit car" business where although there is some visual differences, the underpinnings are the same and everyone buys the parts from the supplier rather than developing in-house.

By today’s standards, the 86 and Supra and Miata are all sports cars. Regardless of the level of luxury or premium features, they are all aggressive roadsters/coupes with shorter wheelbases, focused on handling and good power-to-weight.

I think the idea has been muddled from what it was, but some of that is because the cars need to be bigger to have more power and to have the crash safety features and comfort people expect from modern cars. The idea of owning a two seater where people sit low and harsh and shoulder to shoulder with no practicality isn’t really the type of car people can afford or want, so the definition has broadened. With that said, the phrase is overly applied to pony cars and sport sedans or even muscle cars.

I think the 86 would be a GT car at one point in history, but it is more of a sports coupe today. I think of a modern GT car as an Aston Martin DB with a buttery smooth 6.0L V12, super compliant ride with plenty of comfort and amenities, with a long wheelbase and soft steering feel to be less engaging or twitchy and to be comfortable touring the countryside or blasting down the Autobahn with little road or wind noise.

Agree on all points
Maybe I was not clear in saying (about 20 times) that I was looking at the terms in a past reference.

Grew up with 911 being the sports car to have, and it is a 2+2
What Tcoat is calling as sports car, I always heard as roadster (or english sportscar :))

another 'real car' convo?

reruns are ok every once in a while...

Goes to Wikipedia. Wikipedia confirms what I already thought.
Square, rectangle. Rectangle, square.
Leaves...

LOL so it is both? That really messes things up!

It's neither, it's non-binary. How dare you identify it as a specific category of car.

You have a point (I think I even said it is 2022 someplace)

According to the internet a whole pile of cars that are distinctly NOT sports cars by anybody here's definition now identify as such!


https://www.carmax.com/articles/best-sports-cars

By today’s standard if it’s 2 doors and rwd with performance in mind, it’s a sports car

Those same people consider the ae86 a sports car. It’s not a sports car. The ae86 is a less practical 2dr family car from the mid 80s. It’s a corolla. Corollas, despite their little motorsport history, were not sports cars. Having owned one, alongside owning a te72, the ae86’s father….. both cars are identical in chassis and design… in fact every damn corolla from 1967 to 1987 was nearly identical in chassis and design.

/rant

Ok so the gr86/brz is a sports car now according to the internet and that makes me feel better about myself

Better than Fake Car convos.

We could all use some truth in our lives.

The mini Clubman?
:barf:

My wet dream is LFA engine in my frs. I like how reasonable you are for daily that Mitsubishi

Wow.. OP made a wordless, content-less post trying to increase his view count on youtube and this thread actually ended up being pretty entertaining. Good job OP.

more of a testament to the userbase here than anything the OP did/didn't do

I'm curious how badly he got dragged in the comments on YouTube, but not curious enough to give him a click - I wouldn't want to give him a false sense of the video's worth.

You still can click, pause it and give thumbs down.

there's comments on youtube?

How long have you had your AARP membership?

Now you see why it's so funny when people call ME for tech support

I gave no clicks, because I didn't need the video to know the answer...

Well since he couldn't even get the thread and video titles to match...

consider that youtube is full of 13 year old kids that think the 2jz is the best engine ever made and think the r34 gtr is the god of all cars...

its likely full of dumb useless comments saying the car is slow or ugly or outdated or needs a turbo or needs a toyota motor.. or a combination of all

same people saying those comments will commend nissan for making the 400z and how innovative it is to put a 10 year old motor in a 20 year old platform