Dedicated Track Without Cage
 

As I embark down this journey, I have a question? For this season I plan to run a proper Racing Seat, harness bar, and 5 point harness with Anti Submarine support and a Hans device. This car is no longer street driven and will be trailered to all events. Is it advisable to leave Airbags in or remove with this setup. I plan to get a cage at some point in the future just not this season. This car is being used in HPDE's only and not any sanctioned events.

This aspect of Racing is completely new to me.

Stock safety equipment imo until you get a cage. If you roll your car and your roof collapses, that HANS device may prevent your neck from bending and bad things may happen.

If he rolls his car he will probably have an impact hard enough to benefit from the HANS, too.

Why not just run the factory seats and safety equipment? Once you get a seat and harness I'd want to get a roll bar at a minimum.

Opinions vary, but for me the moment a 5/6 point harness goes in the car it's time for a roll hoop.


The roll hoop (otherwise called a half cage) can prevent spine compression in the event of a roll-over and the roof comes down over you. With a multipoint harness, your body has nowhere to go. In a stock or close to factory configuration with 3point seat belt, there is still enough flex room for your body to move downward since there isn't the leg loop keeping you constrained. The factory seatbelt pretensioner system keeps you from submarining


If you ever elect to go for a full cage, the car will not likely safe for street use anymore as the structures goes over the front door frame. You risk head impacts in street conditions because you won't have a helmet on

Thank you for comments. Mainly I want to remove as much weight. Car will not be driven on any public roads. Strictly for HPDE. But this has given me things to research.

New Question.

I have decided to not use a harness or Bar but the OEM 3 point. With this and the HANs would it be advisable to use stock airbag in the searing wheel?

I would say, exercise caution when trading safety and weight savings.



I'm not as well read on this part, but my impression is that the factory 3 point system is intended to be used with the airbag. If you swap to an aftermarket steering wheel without airbag, it would not be advisable to use on the street since you risk head impact to the wheel. When you're on track with a helmet, maybe it's passable?


With regard to frontal head restraints, it can be used along side the airbag. Not every collision will trigger the airbag, but the sudden deceleration of your head PLUS the weight of the helmet can cause serious injury even at low speed. That being said, the only type of FHR that I am aware of that are marketed as 3-point compatible is the Simpson Hybird line, which isn't technically a traditional HANS that requires harness over-shoulder belts.

In my opinion, this sounds like overkill for anything short of a race car. A simple way to reduce weight without affecting any of your safety equipment would just be to remove the passenger seat and rear seats.

Even as a dedicated track car that gets towed to events, parts failures can really ruin your day so I'd focus on being able to run the car for extended periods reliably. Have you looked into things like oil coolers, track pads, brake ducts, and fire extinguishers?

I currently have limited seat time in this car but in terms of safety equipment, I plan on going with a Simpson Hybrid Sport (3 point compatible Hans).

Make sure to look into what your event organizers allow, more and more I see restrictions on organizers not allowing fixed back seats/harnesses with out at least a roll bar.

IMO

Stock seat with Schroth Rallye 4 (ASM technology and the ability to install the belts to stock harness mounting locations)
Hans (Hybrid is posible)

Just my two cents. As samebody was saying, opinions vary.

Welcome to the track.

Do no fix what is not broken, change brake fluid.

That should be fine to still run the airbag but definitely don’t crack your visor on your helmet. If the airbag goes off and hits your visor, it can knock your head back pretty far up and back.

You can break this down into 2 stages

1.

Hybrid S + best helmet you can afford
Optional: full fire gear

2.

Full cage + seat + harnesses

Just strip the interior minus safety systems and use stock seat and 3 point for now. Next stage will be roll cage, seat, etc... BTW not new to tracking my FRS and I have the car pretty dialed in

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I put my track day car (s13 240sx) into a tire wall at Portland Raceway last week -- had the safety stuff already in the car: roll bar, 6pt harness, HANS and I'm grateful for that.

For years I just used a 3pt belt and race seat (and didn't push super hard) but I'm glad I made the investment in safety equipment and will install the same style setup in the next track day car, too.

Up to you, but I'm personally sold on it.

I'd suggest leaving the passenger seat in. At some point you might want a driving coach or passenger.


I got a Hans Hybrid S. Try one on before you buy. I'm 6'/175lbs (that's naked weight for those who are curious) and I wear a small Hans Hybrid S. My car has stock 3 pt restrains and stock seat. It's also a good idea to have a Hybrid if you ride in a car that has 5-6 point restrains.

Damn that sucks, sorry to hear.

Posts like this is why I backed off. Will strip as much weight while still maintaining stock Driver seat, and OEM safety like airbags etc...

I'm glad you made it out okay!

You can make the car VERY light, and quite potent.

You'll need to re-dial it when the weight drops dramatically.

Yup I know. Plan to get it corner balanced and an alignment check. Also will adjust ride height etc...

In October will be at BW with SDC so open track day. Will try and see what works best. Aero and weight sayings will be new for this day. So lets see how close I can get to that magical 2:00 on some lightly used 660 RTs with the new changes. Current PB is 2:05. I am hoping to shed 100-150LBS with light weight battery, lighter exhaust including 5lb track muffler, Interior strip (including Windows Glass, Seats, Carpet etc... (except for stock seat) will run a haft a tank of gas to save 20-30LBs as well. :party0030:

Remember track mufflers often have unexpected consequences.

Have you considered more driver mod rather than car mod?

If you referring to sound limits I have stock mid pipe and JDL Ultra FP wit dual resonators. I have a stock CBE if need be for those tracks with "stick" sound limits. At this time for me this is more of a hobby and enjoy this aspect. I feel my pace is not that far off at BW what some of the better drivers report there with this platform.

Driver mod is hard. I have friends that participated in different forms of motorsports for years, including stage rally, but never figured out how to go faster. They enjoy the sport but just don't have the talent. :bellyroll:

I've been coaching for about 15 years, and can't remember a single student that hasn't made dramatic improvements.

Think more of what that big space you opened up does.

Practice makes permanent, not perfect.

Have they considered getting coached? Dirtfish perhaps?

The driver has to have the desire and ability to be "modded". As a general observation, Mustang and Camaro drivers will talk about their top speed on the straights. These drivers may not be interested in being modded.



Drivers with lower powered cars, like ours, will talk more about braking, apexing, and tracking out. Here, modding can always be done.

Top speed on the straights can be dramatically affected by driver mod, FWIW.

Can you clarify what you mean by this.

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Without stock muffler, rear bumper acts like a parachute.

I have a Rear diffuser from Verus. Most of my cars underside is covered up.

For a roll bar on a car that is still driven to and from the track, are there any good bolt-ins?

The Studio RSR looks well made, but expensive and I couldn't find anyone's experience with it on the forum. The Autopower looks much more affordable, but also potentially not as strong. Seems to be mentioned here and there on the forum, but not in depth.

Is it worth doing either of these (or other) instead of just a harness bar? Having a roll bar welded in is another option I'm willing to explore, but seems like it'd be a much higher cost.

I think, in your shoes since it's not being driven on the street anymore, I'd do a weld in bar no questions asked 1: for the safety, and 2: for the seat. A seat has always made such a remarkable difference in allowing me to focus solely on driving. Bracing myself is so freaking annoying after having been in a quality seat. And, I felt much more confident pushing harder knowing I had a 5 point + HANS if something went south, doubly so with a halo seat.

If my car wasn't going to stay dual purpose, I wouldn't think twice about a weld in + Evo L + 5 point. I'll probably compromise and get a reclinable that has some added bolstering like a Bride Gias or something.