Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast (Post 3531720)

Not to hijack the thread even more, but do you mean the 987 compared to the Twins (of any generation) or compared to the later Caymans (981 and 982/718)? My original comment was about the Cayman generations among themselves, not compared to the Twins.

Originally Posted by PBR (Post 3531728)

Compared to later 718s and 991s. I've owned a 993 C2S, 07 997.1 Carrera and '06 Cayman S. I prefer their earlier systems and prefer the twins EPS system to both the 991 and 718s. Have not driven q 992 but honestly couldn't care less. They're huge. My 993 next to a 991. And I prefer the twins steering to all 3 Porsches I had. This is where hydraulic isn't always the answer, maybe? But the Evora was just on a different level. And it is hydraulic. So alive in your hands and all the time.

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry (Post 3531764)

Sounds like you’ve owned some pretty impressive cars. Can’t say I’ve driven any of those, only comparable one would be a 986 Boxster, which I did enjoy. I’d love to own a 993 911 or any air cooled 911 for that matter. But sadly price of entry for a decent one is well over $100K in Aus.

I guess it shows the twins really punch above their weight considering what you’ve owned before.

Originally Posted by 86-75309 (Post 3531811)

I currently have a 987.1 Boxster and a 1st gen. 86 (2020). I trade off on which one I'll drive on any particular day. I will say that whenever there is *texture* to the road surface, whether it's coarse pavement, cracks, tar strips, etc., much more of that information is transmitted to my hands through the steering wheel in the 987 than in the 86. My driving style is more 3/10 to 5/10, rather than 7/10 and above. Steering feel may be different nearer the limit, but when just cruising around the 987 "talks" more.

Originally Posted by PBR (Post 3531814)

Hydraulic vs eps would be my guess. There's Def more feedback with a Hydraulic system and kickback. This guy is WAY smarter than I am lol

https://youtu.be/SnnVqs-fQ0U

Originally Posted by Blighty (Post 3531840)

He gets it wrong sometimes.

He also says you will damage your gearbox by resting your hand on the shifter while driving...

Originally Posted by PBR (Post 3531858)

Also hated the steering in my AP2. Not dislike, hate. But I loved the steering in both my RX8s and apparently they use the same eps system, so yeah, dunno.

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast (Post 3531866)

There's a lot more to steering feel than just the power steering system used. Suspension geometry (and there are a lot of things to tweak and fine tune) and PS tuning (less parameters in HPAS, much more parameters in EPAS) can have a big impact on the result. Both the RX8 and the S2000 use double wishbone front suspension, but I'm sure there are enough differences there and in the way each company tunes the EPAS that would explain the difference in steering feel.

Jalopnik ran a great in depth technical article about the changes between the F30 and the G20 BMW 3 series generations.

The most interesting quote for me was:


Which highlights that you can't replicate good steering feel with software alone - you have to have good tuning on the suspension components.

Another case is the difference between the Lotus Elise and Alfa 4C - both are lightweight, mid engine cars with manual steering racks and double wishbone fronts. Yet Alfa couldn't replicate the steering feel of the Elise (poor stock alignment specs and adjustment capabilities seem to be a big factor, with aftermarket caster and camber adjustments together with less toe out improve it quite a bit).

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast (Post 3531866)

There's a lot more to steering feel than just the power steering system used. Suspension geometry (and there are a lot of things to tweak and fine tune) and PS tuning (less parameters in HPAS, much more parameters in EPAS) can have a big impact on the result. Both the RX8 and the S2000 use double wishbone front suspension, but I'm sure there are enough differences there and in the way each company tunes the EPAS that would explain the difference in steering feel.

Jalopnik ran a great in depth technical article about the changes between the F30 and the G20 BMW 3 series generations.

The most interesting quote for me was:


Which highlights that you can't replicate good steering feel with software alone - you have to have good tuning on the suspension components.

Another case is the difference between the Lotus Elise and Alfa 4C - both are lightweight, mid engine cars with manual steering racks and double wishbone fronts. Yet Alfa couldn't replicate the steering feel of the Elise (poor stock alignment specs and adjustment capabilities seem to be a big factor, with aftermarket caster and camber adjustments together with less toe out improve it quite a bit).

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3 (Post 3531573)

which could be to cut costs.....keep that in mind

Originally Posted by nikitopo (Post 3531911)

Or save weight?

Originally Posted by PBR (Post 3531944)

If it was to save costs, why develop a new system? What was wrong with the old one? And again, everything I've seen new on this second gen isn't for more mass appeal. It's more focused, feel and performance oriented. Even the profoundly improved power and delivery. Reinforcements. Z went up 10% in rigidity. This 60% front, 50% torsional and 60% more rigidity in the rear subframe. Those are big #s.

Originally Posted by raisingAnarchy (Post 3531983)

This doesn't really support rennlist's comment, which I'm not trying to support either, but I believe the first gen steering would overheat on track. Maybe that was just when owner's ran wider tires than stock, but I'm hoping the new gen got some improvements with regard to the few issues it had (coil packs, EPS motor overheat, etc)