Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
Page 5 of 6 1234 5 6
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=97)
-   -   ‘22 GR86 vs 2010 Cayman (987.2) (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149779)

ZDan 05-26-2022 02:25 PM
Not all hydrualically assisted steering is good, not all electric is bad...

This is from a while back (2012):

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ower-steering/

After griping about EPS for years, the shocking revelation is that C/D’s editorial staff preferred BMW’s electric system over its hydraulic assistance. Total votes in seven out of ten rating categories favored EPS by two to eight points each.

NoHaveMSG 05-26-2022 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertw (Post 3525693)
I think the lack of feedback in electric power steering is that eps doesn't seem to respond / react to the road at all. When drifting a car with hydraulic power steering transitioning from one direction to the other the steering counter steers during that transition, often on it's own, and you just control the speed at which it happens. When I was drifting a BRZ I always had to initiate the counter steering, and tell the wheel which way to start spinning. Once I got it started it would counter steer and feel more natural, but then to transition to the other direction I would have to repeat the process. I was driving purely off muscle memory vs feel, felt like sim drifting in Assetto Corsa on a cheap Logitech G27.

Maybe electric power steering just needs better programming and sensors telling the electric steering motor what the car is doing. And maybe the better feeling eps units now have systems to simulate road feedback.

A stock twin doesn’t have a lot of caster, it’s around 5, a stock S13 or S2000 has around 6.5 to 7. This has a large effect too.

I think the feel on our EPS is pretty damn good, until it cuts out that is.

Arthur-A 05-26-2022 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan (Post 3525710)
Not all hydrualically assisted steering is good, not all electric is bad...

This is from a while back (2012):

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ower-steering/

After griping about EPS for years, the shocking revelation is that C/D’s editorial staff preferred BMW’s electric system over its hydraulic assistance. Total votes in seven out of ten rating categories favored EPS by two to eight points each.
So they tested bmw f10 and preferred its EPS? I haven't driven f10 5 series, but I drove f30 and it's steering is garbage. Kinda makes you wonder, who's C/D’s editorial staff, lol. A bunch of Karens? That would explain their choice.

Robertw 05-26-2022 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3525723)
A stock twin doesn’t have a lot of caster, it’s around 5, a stock S13 or S2000 has around 6.5 to 7. This has a large effect too.

I think the feel on our EPS is pretty damn good, until it cuts out that is.
It wasn't a stock BRZ, had an angle kit, hydraulic handbrake, turbo kit, etc, fully setup drift car. No clue what caster was set to. I've also heard similar complaints about the latest gen Mustangs at drift events, they also have eps, having to lead the steering wheel.

NoHaveMSG 05-26-2022 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertw (Post 3525748)
It wasn't a stock BRZ, had an angle kit, hydraulic handbrake, turbo kit, etc, fully setup drift car. No clue what caster was set to. I've also heard similar complaints about the latest gen Mustangs at drift events, they also have eps, having to lead the steering wheel.

Ahh gotcha. Wonder if you just powered the steering without CAN com if I’d go away.

ZDan 05-26-2022 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur-A (Post 3525746)
So they tested bmw f10 and preferred its EPS? I haven't driven f10 5 series, but I drove f30 and it's steering is garbage. Kinda makes you wonder, who's C/D’s editorial staff, lol. A bunch of Karens? That would explain their choice.
One of the few cars that some versions came with EPS, some with hydraulic steering.

You are wrong to assume "hydraulic assist always feels better than electric assist". The first sports cars with electric-assist steering definitely suffered. My AP1's steering was very precise and quick, but no feel. The BRZ is HUGELY improved in that regard.

And as I've said, I was surprised to find that I preferred the 981's electric-assisted steering to my 987's hydraulic. And I greatly prefer my BRZ's steering to the 987's.

There have been *plenty* of haudraulic steering systems over the years that absolutely sucked, doesn't mean all hydraulic steering is bad. Same for electric. I don't think there's any technical reason a well-developed electric assist should *have* to have less or "worse" feel than hydraulic.

Arthur-A 05-26-2022 05:44 PM
I didn't like steering feel on my 2020 86. Nowhere close to the great feeling on the 2015 Evo X GSR I had, or my current 240SX, these two are hydraulic power steering, obviously.

Hydraulic power steering can be awful as well, but I only experienced that on various Subarus, tbh.

ZDan 05-26-2022 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur-A (Post 3525761)
I didn't like steering feel on my 2020 86. Nowhere close to the great feeling on the 2015 Evo X GSR I had, or my current 240SX, these two are hydraulic power steering, obviously.

Hydraulic power steering can be awful as well, but I only experienced that on various Subarus, tbh.
Loved the steering on my S13, IMO was much better than BMW's and Porsches of the era! My S14's steering though, totally different story! *Totally* numb and rubbery-feeling, I fricking hated it. I'm pretty sure they softened up the bushings attaching the rack to the car or some such. I was kinda dumbfounded that they managed to screw it up...

Arthur-A 05-26-2022 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan (Post 3525764)
Loved the steering on my S13, IMO was much better than BMW's and Porsches of the era! My S14's steering though, totally different story! *Totally* numb and rubbery-feeling, I fricking hated it. I'm pretty sure they softened up the bushings attaching the rack to the car or some such. I was kinda dumbfounded that they managed to screw it up...
At least it's a relatively easy fix with just stiffer bushings.

series.trackday 06-01-2022 08:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoNYlZQ9mnU

PBR 06-01-2022 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan (Post 3525710)
Not all hydrualically assisted steering is good, not all electric is bad...

This is from a while back (2012):

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ower-steering/

After griping about EPS for years, the shocking revelation is that C/D’s editorial staff preferred BMW’s electric system over its hydraulic assistance. Total votes in seven out of ten rating categories favored EPS by two to eight points each.
Had an S2K AP2. Could only characterize the steering feel as poor. EPS. My brother has a 968. Hydraulic. Nice feel but 3.5 turns lock to lock. No thanks. RX8 had an EPS system and was fantastic. Evora was hydraulic and still easily the best steering feel I've tried. I think the steering feel in the twins is fantastic and a major draw of the car. Porsche EPS systems have steadily improved over the years also but I haven't met a 718 or 991 that can match my former 997.1. Haven't driven a 992.

Decep 06-01-2022 03:45 PM
Interesting that the rx8 got EPS and the NC never did. Didnt know that.

JRitt 06-02-2022 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by series.trackday (Post 3526743)
sideways video

Nicely done! Your video exemplifies how playful the 86 is and it makes me want to get back to the track asap. I particularly liked your rowing for added horsepower. :)

series.trackday 06-02-2022 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRitt (Post 3527086)
Nicely done! Your video exemplifies how playful the 86 is and it makes me want to get back to the track asap. I particularly liked your rowing for added horsepower. :)
Oh, that's not me - just another driver whos videos I follow.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:44 AM.
Page 5 of 6 1234 5 6
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.


Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.