Why in the world would anyone think that?? Look, I have no knowledge/experience with hydraulic steering at all. But as an engineer, just hearing "hydraulic" - as opposed to some sort of direct linkage or even drive-by-wire - makes me think slow and lag.

It’s so subjective. Ratios can make a difference too. Some older cars you might feel more but those larger ratios make you think it does not steer as well. Plus tires can make the feel different as well as bushings, etc. Lots of variables.

:lol:

But also :cry:

Because the link between the driver and the road can be more direct than a system with an electric motor assistant.

Hydraulic steering, when well designed, is very good and with a good feedback.
The hydraulic system is just a set of valves that opens when a certain angle is reached, creating an assistance to reduce the effort to turn the wheel. It is still direct linkage.

It’s Hydraulic ASSIST, not hydraulic actuation. It’s still a mechanical rack and pinion.

The reason people equate electric assist with poor feedback is because the early implementations of electric steering in cars had really poor feedback. It took a few generations to get it right. Still, the last hydraulic assist systems generally had better feel and MUCH better weight to them than even today’s electric racks.

I agree with others that this is a completely relevant comparison. The 987 Boxster/Cayman and the new twins are extremely similar in many ways and I can see how anyone looking for a fun sportscar would cross-shop them.

I currently own a 2008 987.1 Base Boxster LE (orange) and I love it. Also in my current and past stable are 997.2 C2S, '91 NSX, Gen.1 BRZ, S2000, MR2 Spyder, C5Z06, C6 with 403 stroker, 350Z, six different NA and NB Miatae, DC2 Integra Type R, and a bunch of others that didn't just pop into my head. :p

The 987.1 Boxster is one of my favorite street cars I've ever owned (out of about 50 different sportscars in the past 20 years). It is fantastic on back roads for these reasons:
1. Powerful enough to get out of its own way, but not so fast that it will get you into major trouble. Way more fun around town than an S2000 due to torques.

2. Engine note- Factory PSE (Porsche Sports Exhaust) is glorious on this thing (and can go to quiet mode), and the engine is sitting right behind your head. You also hear the valves tapping, etc...a lovely mechanical symphony on every drive.

3. Outstanding gearing- 2nd gear is 4,000 RPM at 40mph and tops out around 60mph. Third gear goes to around 90mph. This gearing is excellent for 2nd and their gear twisties, and you're constantly in the 4,000+ RPM range and winding the engine out to hear it sing. You also have to shift quite a bit, which keeps you engaged.

4. Mid-engine- The car just pivots around you, and it's a feeling that's hard to replicate with a front engine car (even a really, really well balanced one). I've owned numerous cars with both layouts, and mid-engine just feels unique.

5. Convertible- Top down driving is outstanding on a nice day. It adds to the sensory experience.

6. Stock suspension offers fairly neutral handling and reasonable comfort...not so stiff over bad roads that it shakes your teeth out.
7. Brakes are solid from the factory with good feel, and I never worry about fading them on the road.

8. I think the steering feel is pretty darn good with excellent feedback. The steering wheel is a bit large for my taste though.
9. Reasonable storage with the front and rear trunks- I've taken it on a few 8-10 hour road trips and it has been awesome.

10. Chicks dig it. Just kidding. But seriously, mine does garner a lot of attention because it is a bright orange punch in the eye! :p

The 987.1 base car with the 5 speed is a 'hero car' to me. You can pound around in it and it just feels like you can get away with doing stupid ish without it biting you. It just flows down the road through twisties. It reminds me very much of my old NA Miata in that regard. It is a wonderful sportscar and I don't have very few minor faults to pick with it. I drove a customer's 718 Boxster Spyder for a day, and I didn't like it nearly as much. The gearing is ridiculously tall, it has too much power to ring out on the street, it had auto engine shutoff (annoying as hell in a sportscar), and I was afraid to damage it because it was hideously expensive.

With all the above said, I think the new twins are fantastic! Over the past few months we've had both the new GR86 and BRZ in to our shop to be measured for AP Racing brake kits. They are both outstanding, but I prefer the styling and handling of the GR86 if I had to choose.

I believe the GR86 provides a huge portion of the same experience my Boxster provides. My coworkers were laughing at me because I was fawning all over the GR86 when it was here. I think it is one of the best, most pure sportscars I've ever driven. The fact that it is modern and being built today is shocking to me. It gives the old-school, mechanical driving experience I love, laced with all the modern tech. The car handles phenomenally, and they fixed the engine this time around. The engine lives up to the rest of the car, unlike the first Gen. engine. If I was going to own only one fixed roof sportscar and I didn't want to spend a fortune, the GR86 is pretty much at the top of my list next to a 987 Base Cayman.

The GR86 is lighter, which I love. The GR86 also has a big advantage with the rear +2 for kids (or dwarfs). My youngest loves having her own little bucket seat in the back of my 997. I'd be shocked if the GR86 doesn't prove to be more reliable long-term than any Porsche. It's also going to cost a lot less to repair, and aftermarket upgrades are going to be far cheaper. The GR86 is a bit more spacious on the inside as well. In fact, I had tons of space. I'm 6'3 1/2" and I am totally maxed out in the Boxster on space. I fit horribly into the S2000 with that damn fixed steering wheel, and I had to remove the door handle and dead pedal in all my Miatae to get comfy.

In summary...I have owned a lot of sportscars. I have also driven a huge variety of customer cars and my friends' cars...I'm talking everything from crap-can racers to McLarens. IMO, the GR86 is one of the greatest sportscars available right now. The fact that it costs $30k is incredible. It is an immense bargain, and I will own one at some point. If I decided to sell off my fleet right now and could have only one, it would be right at the top of my list. The two other cars that most interest me right now are the Lotus Emira and the Lotus Evora GT.

My Boxster, which I adore.:wub:


https://i.postimg.cc/jdWR6t9X/IMG-2516.jpg

Never seen that color before, they're always silver around here. Nice car!

I am yet to see a decent electric power steering. Every car with EPS that I ever driven had terrible steering feel.
Maybe Nissan with their new Z did it right, who knows.

My 2008 Base Boxster LE is #25

See below a link for LaFerrari EPHS. This is a hydraulic assisted steering rack with an electrical hydraulic pump to reduce parasitic loses from ZF/TRW

https://www.gardnerweb.com/articles/...teering-system

I am lucky enough to have a friend that trusts me with his Boxster S enough to go to the track with it. I agree on all fronts except the stock suspension. On the track it did its best to become a front engine car at all possible opportunities. He swapped in some moton$$$ and after that it was sublime.

I found my '11 Cayman primarily needed a LOT more front camber for track work. I got shimmable GT3 control arms which got it to just under -3 degrees, worked great. I also had ~20% stiffer PASM springs installed, which required other mods to fix ride height, wound up spending a bit there, woulda been better off just getting aftermarket coilovers, but "street car"...

I think the lack of feedback in electric power steering is that eps doesn't seem to respond / react to the road at all. When drifting a car with hydraulic power steering transitioning from one direction to the other the steering counter steers during that transition, often on it's own, and you just control the speed at which it happens. When I was drifting a BRZ I always had to initiate the counter steering, and tell the wheel which way to start spinning. Once I got it started it would counter steer and feel more natural, but then to transition to the other direction I would have to repeat the process. I was driving purely off muscle memory vs feel, felt like sim drifting in Assetto Corsa on a cheap Logitech G27.

Maybe electric power steering just needs better programming and sensors telling the electric steering motor what the car is doing. And maybe the better feeling eps units now have systems to simulate road feedback.

Or maybe instead of trying to reinvent the wheel and bloating the car with tons of electronic crap, they could just use a system that is simple, works perfectly and naturally? And if anyone's concerned about taking up power, they could use electric power steering pump.