Whiteline camber bolts not enough - what’s next?
 

Installed RCE yellows with stock Sachs and installed Whiteline bolts in the top holes. Only yielded about -1.0 in the front(I think limited by the potential for the wheel to hit the strut, according to the alignment shop). I’d like to get to at least -2.5 in the most economical way possible. I think my two best options are adding SPC camber bolts in the lower holes (so two camber bolts each side) or adding Pedders top hats. Any recommendations?

ETA: I'm running 17x8 ET45 Enkeis with 225-45-17 RS4's.

If wheels are close to rubbing even with -1dg camber (suspect probably overly wide wheels/tires used), then adding another camberbolt set imho not the best option, as it also will angle wheels closer to struts, just as current single camberbolt set (that for many can go upto -1.5). In such case, yes, probably pedders tophats are better choice, as for extra camber they relocate top point of struts themselves. Maybe also you can try powerflex pff69-801g bushings in addition to pedders top mounts. My real recommendation is too late, to not go for too wide wheels in first place.

Camber plates and probably spacers or different wheels with better offsets and possibly narrower tires.

What size and offset are your wheels?

I run SPC lower/crash bolt upper with 2.3° camber with plenty of clearance running 17x8 +38 and 225/45R17 tires. Worth checking your lower spring perch clearance now to give you an idea on how to move forward.

Pedders will add camber and a bit of caster from my understanding. That's the route I'd go if you have the time to order and install them. An extra camber bolt can be done in minutes.

Apologies for not including the wheel/tire specs - added to OP, and also here:

17x8 +45 Enkeis with 225-45-17 RS4's.

This seems like a pretty conservative tire/wheel setup. Alignment guy (they do a lot of track car setups including corner balancing, it's not some shitty tire shop) just mentioned in passing that the top bolt would be limited by strut clearance, and said a lower camber bolt would be fine as it would pull the whole wheel/tire away from the strut assembly. I'm just not sure I'll get enough camber out of the 2 bolt setup, but for cost reasons would prefer that over top hats.

Here's a very short clip showing the clearance:
https://imgur.com/a/nIPe094
https://imgur.com/a/nIPe094

I'm surprised an aftermarket camber bolt is only netting 1 full degree. I have a OEM camber/crash bolts and they got 1.1-1.3 degrees. Most guys running SSC setups are in the 2.5 degree range with about that offset and 225's. They're right at the perch too.


IMO, something odd with how much they're getting with your setup as is.

+45 offset is working against you. You could get more camber with camber bolts if you were on +35. Or spacers maybe? As mentioned, Pedders offset top mounts will give you more neg camber. If you're lowered *at all* I wouldn't get camber plates, some rob too much bump travel and the PP Sachs front struts are *woefully* short on bmp travel....

That makes sense. I'm trying to avoid camber plates, I think I'll try Pedders + double camber bolts and see what that yields.

Good choice!
I’ve been running with both the 16mm and 14mm camber bolts and Pedders Top Mounts. TRD springs on Koni Yellows with 17x8 +35 wheels and 245/40-17 A052’s.
My alignment Guru had me set at -2.75 front camber and stated that -3.50 may be achievable. I went -2.75 as at the time I was 99% DD/ 01% Track.
I’m about to clean-up and up sell this set-up.
Just installed Ohlin’s R&T and looking forward to tracking them Monday.

Just to close the loop on this - installed the Pedders top hats + SPC lower bolts today (in addition to the Whiteline upper bolts previously installed). Final result was -2.75* in the front. I believe that to be limited by the high offset wheels (+45).

Also gained about 0.8* of caster from the Pedders.

Combined with -2.25* camber in the rear from the RCE yellows, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. First track day next week so we'll see how it does.

That's a fair amount of rear camber for that much on the front. I typically shoot for 1-2deg less in the rear to keep the car free and not burn up the inside rear edge from wheelspin and dragging it around the turns.
i.e. with -3.5 up front, I shoot for -1.5 to -2 in the rear.

second comment--- is that much camber required/necessary for a fairly narrow street tire? understand you're on a fairly soft suspension (compared to a full coilover setup), so there will be some body roll in turns. but that much camber on a street driven car will wear tires quickly.

you will also scrub away the inside edge of the inside tires under cornering because of the body roll and camber. getting the outer wheels square with the ground is good, but scrubbing away the inside tires is one of the sacrifices you have to decide on.

only way to really tell is to get the car to a track and take some tire temps when you come off, then update your alignment to suit.

Then of course also adjust your compromise because street car on track-- track alignments don't do great for tire life on a DD....

I had -3 degrees front and everything else stock, one of my favorite iterations of my car, I was still burning up outside edge of the front tire and could have used more but it felt really balanced in my hands.

I currently daily -4/-2.5

Worth it because racecar

If you have that much camber and you're still tearing up the outer shoulder of the fronts, then you have other setup of driving issues to address.

If you are overdriving the car into the turns and standing on the brakes into understeer conditions, then you will chew off the shoulders no matter what your setup is.

If you have other setup issues (sway bars, too low of a roll center, etc) which are creating other poor chassis dynamics, then you can be dealing with terminal understeer that's causing the push and the heavy wear on the front tires.

Just some thoughts.

I don't necessarily know those answers - I've set this up so far based solely on research online, trying to keep to a reasonable budget. First track day (with this car) on Friday, so I should know more then. This car is rarely street driven (it's a weekend car so doesn't get driven much period) so I lean towards a track setup. I do have a pyrometer and intend to check tire temps, but honestly I'm not sure I know how to properly interpret the data (pressure vs. alignment, etc).

Pyro data is a great start, and some interweb reading will tell you a lot on it. it's a very useful tool, but you must also account for personal driving habits like mentioned above..

If you are overdriving the car and just completely blowing corner entry, the car will understeer and you'll wear the outer shoulders no matter how much camber you have. you'll also have way higher temps on the outer edge which points to more camber needed... BUT.. the problem is caused by driving and not alignment. Sooo you have to take those things into consideration too.

How do you tell if you're driving too hard and causing understeer?
1. are the tires 'singing with happiness' or 'screaming in agony'?
2. once you've turned in and got the weight transferred, begin unwinding the steering wheel. if the car turns less, then you're below the grip limit. if you turn the wheel out and the car continues turning the same arc, you've exceeded the limit of the front tires and are just skidding them across the pavement, eating up rubber and scrubbing speed.

I see that soooooo much with beginner and intermediate drivers. too many people thing "driving harder" equates to "driving faster". throwing a car into the turns and beating on it is not getting the best out of the equipment. it tears things up and makes you slower.

The trick is finding that limit line and getting as close as you can to it without going over. driving the car at 95% vs 105% will yield the same lap times, but driving it at 105% will show itself in high levels of wear on the car- tires, brakes, shocks, wheel bearings, clutches, transmissions, etc get eaten up and the car is very 'lively', while the car driven at 95% looks like it's out on a sunday cruise and consumables last a loooot longer. the guy driving at 105% is also the one most likely to put it in the dirt or the wall and go home on a tow truck.

Obviously I'm not trying to insinuate any driving styles from a single post mentioning outer tire wear, but sharing what I've seen in the track and racing community in the last 20 yrs of playing with cars.

Very insightful, thanks.