I'm following what you are saying, and I could imagine a scenario where no manufactures or retailers are able to sell headers, for instance, without risking a steep fine, but I'm just wondering if this would also mean CARB EOs will end. If someone buys a CARB JRSC kit and flashes the CARB tune with ECUTEK then they could still flash to a different tune and flash back to the CARB tune for smog like people do for other mods too. That same person could also sell the ECUTEK dongle and cable if they have no plans to flash the ECU again, so what is stopping someone from using that ECUTEK to flash their car with a non-CARB tune and flashing back to stock during smog? What if someone sells their CARB JRSC kit, and the new owner needs to buy a license from ECUTEK to be able to flash a CARB tune? It seems like there are paths for getting the equipment and license if they plan on allowing CARB parts and tunes. Maybe they plan to end the EO program.

Is this only for vehicle specific parts and not for generic parts? Like will aftermarket fuel pumps be illegal? People have said that "race" or "off-road" labels on parts will not fly, so does this mean professional motorsports will end, or will they buy parts to a third party warehouse that will verify authenticity before shipping or something elaborate? Will it be like Honda selling K20c1 crate motors only to Honda Raceline members? Will GM stop selling crate engines? I feel like vagaries in the law never end well for those trying to uphold the vague laws in court.

Like I said, its not the same.

In Australia the 'Product' is explicitly defined.

https://www.awe.gov.au/sites/default...-standards.pdf

You cannot ban tuning products for instance, while you might still be in breach of a number of laws for modifying your car without the relevant paperwork, there is no legal device that can disallow sale of anything but the engines themselves.

And even then, it can only disallow the sale of new engines - existing or second hand sales of these products are not covered by the law.

Like many laws they have not really worked through the ramifications yet so things like non oem parts are still grey. They have said they are "considering" the impact on motorsports but have not come to a final verdict on how to deal with that.
The reality at this point in time is that they are going to start to crack down on the sellers of non standard equipment. Of course even though it is a Federal law each State will decide how far they want to take it.
Will be the normal clusterfuck for a while.

It is the opening salvo. You really think they are going to control "powered brooms" while letting you buy whatever you want for your car?
I am not going to deep dive into Australian law but would be willing to bet there have been strong emissions control laws for tunes and exhausts for some time there. The fact that they are currently largely ignored doesn't mean it will stay that way.

Britain doesn't have any new gen 86 or brz yet. My bet is Shiv has something first. Ecutek will have something eventually. I'd love to see some tuning results from the new motor myself.

I can't make the leap between companies not being able to sell "off-road" or "race" parts, and professional motorsports ending. As long as there are vehicles there will be motorsports of some sort. You don't have to have a bunch of "high performance parts" that spew carbon into the air to hold a race.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll end up with actual stock car racing again! :)

Besides, doesn't most of this go away as we convert to alternate fuels anyway?

As Tcoat said, they are going after the people selling the stuff, not the users. So if you can't buy the tuning equipment, you won't be able to sell it to someone else to use.

Remember when it was big to tout vehicles with Flex Fuel capability 15 years ago in this country? You don't see that anymore.

The big governments aren't concerned with algae-based fuel, ethanol made from sugar beets (like Brazil), they are all in on going electric.

Remember? I own two (2004 Suburban and 2016 Ford Focus).

I include EV in alternative fuels.

Well take marijuana as an example. Federally it is illegal, but many states have legalized it, so state police won’t be doing any raids, but federal officers could potentially come kicking down doors at any time. Some presidents have directed the FBI to focus on marijuana crackdowns, and others have said they aren’t going to be enforcing the federal law, but aren’t going to legalize marijuana. My hospital doesn’t allow anyone to have in their possession marijuana because we receive federal money, so even though it is legal in the state, it can’t be in the building, knowingly.

Similarly, the motorsports industry would be gambling by producing federally illegal parts, even if the states lack laws or say it is legal. Some might accept the risk. Others might not.

Cracking down on sellers or manufacturers or both? If I buy a header from Alibaba that is shipped from China by a Chinese seller of a Taiwanese manufactured part, how can they fine them, or will they fine USPS for delivering it?

Both.
They will just start seizing such items at customs. Some will slip through of course. It will be a slow process but eventually the Chinese sellers would take enough of a loss they would just stop shipping.

It will be even a bigger deal in Europe. They are already looking at ALL emissions from a car not just the engine. We have been tasked to determine the annual emissions from brake dust and develop a "corrective" action! They are looking at how to determine the amount of emissions created from belt wear for crying out loud.

As I have said this is all really early in the world wide big plan so it will take years before they get their shit together enough to have a real impact but everybody better get used to announcements such as Cobb's. It is just the beginning of an era where it is really going to suck to be a young automotive "enthusiast".

Would you go to drag races of completely stock cars? No Formula 1. No Nascar. No Top Fuel racing. Motec shuts their business down. Garrett only sells OEM replacement turbos. Aftermarket fuel rails, fuel pumps, FPR, surge tanks, flex fuel kits, fuel tanks, maybe fuel lines, turbos, superchargers, headers, etc just doesn’t exist. I get that there are hicks racing stock tractors with retrofitted toilet bowls for seats, so racing will never cease, but for all intensive purposes, it will.

https://youtu.be/AMrXmvzzjeE

Yes, I would go see completely stock cars drag race. In fact, I would prefer it to watching some special built 4 wheeled vehicle that costs $10,000 a quarter mile to run.

As far as all the other types of racing, they will adapt, just has they have been doing since the first organized race in 1867. Let's face it, once the racers figure out how to get the range and "refuel" capacity they need out of EVs, there won't be much liquid fuel racing left.

As far as all the parts you mention, I do believe you should be able to maintain and improve the performance of your vehicle. However, there is always a social compromise to any of that.

Motorsports (both pro and amateur) may change a bit but they will survive. You just won't be able to drive your track car on the roads to get there. You will need to haul it with your ultra green vehicle that leaves the air it passes through cleaner than it was when you got there.

There are groups fighting to maintain motorsports and since they are such a big tradition all around the world they do have some clout.

https://www.sema.org/epa-news

Well, then I guess we are likely to see most serious motorsports end. Either that or teams will need to get creative with what they are working with and will need to produce everything in house and retrofit OEM products.

Enthusiasts will need to stick to stock cars that already make lots of power and focus on aero, or just get into the stance game or show-n-shine. I mean there is little stopping a person from welding a test pipe after removing the cat only to swap stock headers back on the car for a smog test, especially if the state won’t enforce the law rigorously like they currently don’t. In five to ten more years there should be enough cheap Hellcats for young enthusiasts to afford to do donuts behind my house.

Worth mentioning that F1 has been making strides to steer away from racing fuels and what not. Look at their engines, we have gone from V12s, to the abomination V6s are. I believe their fuels are supposed to change in about 4-6 years, then who knows what else they'll do. Probably go full electric.



Just like racing started the minute a second car was built, racing will continue, we already have Formula E. All we can do is adapt as people before us continued to do so.

When/if they start vigorously enforcing end user contraventions the first thing the "enthusiasts" need to do is stop getting loud exhausts and pop tunes. There is nothing quite as dumb as knowing you have a target on your back and then running around screaming "OVER HERE LOOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY CHECK ME OUT". It already stands out so it will be much much worse as the penalties get higher and make it worth the police enforcing.

I’m just saying that almost all motorsport use illegal parts under this law, so the sport won’t exist as it is or close to how it is. The only top motorsport that could survive with little difference is maybe motorcycle racing like MotoGP or WSBK; they wouldn’t exist in the same way, but OEM motorbikes are so fast that it may not make a huge difference to the spectators what they are seeing in lap times and top speeds.

For other motorsports, even if they allow the vehicles to race, they would need to design everything in house because they won’t find a manufacturer who produces aftermarket fuel cells, fuel surge tanks, larger injectors, fuel rails, forced induction, fuel pressure regulators. They will need to use 16 OEM injectors for their 4 cylinder and six turbos from an 18 wheeler all retrofitted with in-house CNC products run off an in-house, proprietary engine management system.

But the police don’t really enforce it now. They are too short staffed to care about tint or noise pollution laws. I can sit at a busy intersection and in just a minute could point out a dozen or more cars with illegal equipment. The states may not have laws anyways, so it would be up to the federal government to enforce their laws.

I’m just saying that there is little to stop people from being obnoxious in masses unless the governments truly commits with a lot of resources, so manufacturers and motorsports are taking the real hit.

Just wait for the EPA task forces to be deployed!

Will they look like this
https://fw-d7-freedomworks-org.s3.am...med-Police.jpg

Or this

https://groovyhistory.com/content/34...7438485e6e.jpg

The only thing that can kill motor sports would be Redbull and monster putting their money somewhere else.

No Redbull or Monster.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ces04_edit.jpg

This is how I look at it.

Fireworks are banned in Hawaii. That includes sparklers and morning glories. Need a permit for firecracker strands.

This has been in effect for over a decade.
This is what it's like every year.
Customs means jack shit.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/wp-co...ireworks-1.jpg

Intents and purposes, you filthy philistine. :D

There isn't a law that can target the sale of tuning devices, you as the owner off a vehicle can still be done at any moment by failing to pass emissions though.

Again, its not like the US - the EPA and its legal devices are some of the most powerful written into US law.

As the number of electric cars increase, particularly with worldwide sale bans of ICE then there is much less of an impact vs the money involved in enforcing it, so I really don't know if it gets worse - perhaps? Its hard to say, but certainly, you could be right about what happens in the future in other countries.

fireworks are banned in illinois as well. but sparklers are allowed. not really any different there though come 4th of july.

big difference in this example though is that there's really only 1 time every year where people really want to use them on 4th of july.

in illinois trying to do fireworks any other time, the police come down pretty hard on it. they also come down on the idiots on 4th of july as well that attempt to host big private shows as well and make a media circus out of the confiscation.

modded cars/tunes are quickly becoming everyday occurrences, which are becoming more of a nuisance to me than fireworks..

i can deal with a mild exhaust, or a higher pressure blow off valve, but pop tunes especially are really getting on my nerves. and there's a diesel truck in my area that's got the most obnoxious turbo whine ever. i can hear when he goes by, and i'm about 8 blocks away from the main road.

Pop tunes now make me more upset than seeing stance cars that use barely an inch of tire tread. Unfortunately, these usually go hand in hand though.

I can’t wait for the electric car meets when everyone is doing RGB and playing Fortnite on their head unit.

People complaining about loud exhausts on a sports car forum, lol. What a joke. Yet no one has mentioned that there's a campaign to support true enthusiasts and save motorsports:
https://theshopmag.com/news/turn-14-...s-to-racecars/

Ummm did you read back or just skim the last couple of posts? Beyond a couple of recent references the discussion has not been around loud exhausts but overall modding that impacts emissions. Not only did I mention the campaign to preserve motorsports several times I linked to a site twice. Not sure that Turn 14 is going to have much lobbying power beyond making the local news.
And who the hell are these "true enthusiasts" you speak of? They the 18 year old hairbun crowd running around with pop tunes and general being d!icks that draw attention to the issue by annoying everybody else?

Deere has no user serviceable parts.

[/sad trombone]

Turn 14 is protecting their own interests.

A lot of "scene queens" consider themselves enthusiasts. It's a big reason I have never been into the whole car club thing.

I hate that word "enthusiast" with a passion anyway. Or at least the way it is used by many on this (and other) forums and social media. It is usually used to describe the speaker's priorities and preferences while excluding anybody that disagrees with them. The coal roll crowd are "enthusiasts" as are the stock car detail fanatic, the Prius mileage seekers, the classic car restorers, and so on. Anybody that likes cars are an "enthusiast" but more often than not if you don't track, attend meets or heavily modify your car you are looked down upon as a bad "enthusiast".

I consider most car people enthusiasts. I don't care if it is stock or not. The only ones that really bug me are the ones that get into the modding scene with no aim or purpose, just attention. At that point I think they have graduated to "scene queen." It's funny cause I have noticed most of the tracking community is more receptive to all cars then anywhere else I have met car people. Tracking a Viper ACR, sweet. Tracking a 200k+ mile stock Saab 9-3, also sweet. People are weird, sometimes I wish I wasn't one.

You can’t tell me what I can’t do.

I am guilty of this, but I think you and I are mixing up adjectives. You are probably thinking vehicle enthusiast, which is more general, and I am thinking driving enthusiast. Specifically, car driving enthusiast and not the off-road driving enthusiast or the cross-country-touring enthusiast. Like how ‘sports car’ is now overused, muddling the definition and requires a nuanced explanation, so does enthusiast, as you have highlighted.

I tend to think of the car enthusiast in articles as often referencing the driving enthusiast who wants a lightweight, great handling, analog, quick car that has a communicative chassis that makes the car engaging for spirited driving. If I was reading a truck magazine, a truck enthusiast would bring to mind the same thing for that genre, so a rugged, engaging and capable truck for off-roading, mudding, rock crawling, trail driving, etc. The high-mileage and cross country driving enthusiasts could be driving on cruise control or in the passenger seat, so I don’t know how much of an enthusiast they are for driving—more like they just enjoy getting out on the open road whether that is in a Winnebago or whatever.

I think we hear and read of enthusiasts being referenced in the vein that I described because we have seen a precipitous drop off in the models and production of sports cars and of the features classically enjoyed by the driving enthusiast: cars are heavier, DBW, electric steering, less or no manual transmissions, etc. I don’t think it is a matter of us just being in our bubble or echo chamber.

the issue is that we all want to distill the word down to a specific subset of the grouping. human nature is annoying.

if i say someone's autistic, or color blind, most people jump to wheelchair-bound/rainman characters, or people that see in black and white only and can't tell if that stop light is red or green.

the reality is there's a nearly infinite spectrum of diagnosable symptoms from 'normal' to outright vegetable state/blindness that count for either of those conditions.

same with 'enthusiast'. an enthusiast is anyone that has an interest in the subject. we are all car enthusiasts, as we all have had enough of an interest to sign up for a car-specific forum at least once.

wtf is a 'real enthusiast'? the distinction is what annoys me. it implies some of us are just here for improving our status somewhere, and actually have no interest in the subject.

but honestly, i'd rather be a 'fake enthusiast' than be associated with the groups of people constantly screaming for attention that they're 'real enthusiasts'...

If I had a dollar for every time I disagreed with somebody here and got the “well you are not a real enthusiast so go away“ comeback I could buy a nice steak dinner!

now i'm thinking about getting a 'fake enthusiast' windshield banner for my car.

at least that way i can let everyone know i'm only in it for the myspace glory.

Right, which is why I said the automotive journalist and forum members here are typically NOT talking about car enthusiasts. Someone can be a quadriplegic that can’t drive or a six year old, and still be a car enthusiast. The use of enthusiast is more specific to driving enthusiasts who were disappointed to see no manual option and fake vents on the new Supra, for instance. Journalists weren’t writing about how happy the enthusiasts were for all the fake vents because they are easier for the show and shine crowd to maintain, nor were they talking much about the layers or hardness of the paint, which might be good for polishing, nor were they discussing the clearance potential for slamming and stancing the car.

Again, mainstream automotive journalism focuses less on fads like stancing or lifting cars on Dubs. They focus less on show and shine, except for the fact that these cars are great for pictures. They focus less on large, luxury sedans or boring SUVs or on pedestrian vehicles like minivans, where the family enthusiast would be the reader. The big focus is on driving enthusiasts and track enthusiasts, which is typically why there is a track or performance review section of their articles and a subjective section from driving on some canyon roads. The measure of subjectivity is based on how well the car is a communicative and performing track car, while how well it can still be comfortably driving on the streets. It doesn’t matter if it is a true sports car, a sports sedan, a GT or a supercar, the measure is always something like a Miata for fun, a Lotus for handling, a Ferrari for sound, etc.

Like all words, their definitions change with usage over time, which is why ‘sports car’ no longer has the same meaning it once had, so I’m not saying the word enthusiast is cornered by driving and track enthusiasts, but it is undeniable that the mainstream automotive media and majority of people are referencing driving and track enthusiasts when they use the word enthusiast. When someone says the GR86 is an enthusiast car, they could be saying the platform is ideal for the satire car enthusiasts or the lifted Dub enthusiasts, but we likely know that they mean the common usage of enthusiast. Also, if you say that enthusiast means anything then enthusiast means nothing.

http://www.carnaubawaxshop.co.uk/pho...spoilers_1.jpg
https://www.universalcarlifts.com/wp...pper-lower.jpg

Are you an Enthusiast or are you Passionate about motor vehicles.