You are still stuck with the same issue if your car is not competitive in its class it can't be competitive in PAX either. It sort of works for the pros (they all have the right cars) and novices (none of them have the right cars), but its a bandaid. Imagine a PAX within each category, over time it would balance all cars and you could just buy the car you want.

Sort of the breaks of the game.

Not every car needs to be competitive, and making that balance of power work only works (prob only short term) with a benevolent dictatorship instead of a volunteer board driven organization.

A thought occurred to me regarding classing and even though I'm not that passionate about this, I do like the critical thinking it requires.

It seems to me that the old saying of "there is no replacement for displacement" in the drag racing world is a similar idea here. There is no replacement for less weight in most of these classes. Power to weight ratio only takes you so far and adding more power to a heavier car doesn't guarantee that it will be able to beat a lighter, smaller car or even be competitive against it.

The group may be trying to figure out the problem from the wrong angle. You might find a way to work through the problem if you take a different angle.

What would it take for the 2022 86 platform to truly be competitive with the ND2's in STR (for example)?

Is there a scenario where the 86 would be competitive with the ND2?

Is there a scenario within the rules where the 86 would be competitive with the ND2?

On paper the power to weight and torque to weight ratios show the 86 having an advantage. Is this just a case of too much weight and the offsetting power/torque aren't enough?

More power won't overcome extra weight without more rubber on the ground.

A twin with header and full exhaust has the same identical thrust as the ND2 from 30-55 mph. We tested.

The ND's on 225 and 8" wheels would make it closer but probably still not enough.

Fair enough. STR is limited to a 255 wide tire so I can see where that would be a problem. Is that it though?

So, it's really just a limit based on the weight difference then? It's just that the GR86 weighs too much?

I'm not sure any of this is really a "problem".

I mean, it might be a problem for someone with a new twin that wants to be competitive in ST trim. But on a macro level, I'm not sure that a new twin without a tune being slower than an ND2 represents an inherent problem in how hundreds of cars are classed across 40 classes.

I'm not sure any of this is really a "problem".

I mean, it might be a problem for someone with a new twin that wants to be competitive in ST trim. But on a macro level, I'm not sure that a new twin without a tune being slower than an ND2 represents an inherent problem in how hundreds of cars are classed across 40 classes.

F=ma

F is the force the tires can impart to turn the car
M is the mass of the car
A is the acceleration, how quick the car will turn

Heavier cars can’t turn as well unless you add more tires to it. With the same tires the Miata should be quicker through every sweeper, slalom, and offset. Add in that it has better suspension design, smaller dimensions, and as above as good acceleration, you’ll have to drive your balls off to beat one in equal prep.

Also like Steve points out, it’s not that big a deal, the cars aren’t super common yet, still relatively expensive, and will eventually (hopefully) grow into a competitive ST? class in a few years. Sorry not every chassis can win every year, scca gives a healthy amount of stable parity for extremely tight competition, if you don’t want to fit in their boxes there’s plenty of other places to play, they’re just lonelier until you go make them cool.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm just trying to put in plain words what you're saying. I don't think there is an easy solution to this "problem" without making even more classes or doing something more interesting like limiting tires based on curb weight. I realize that even that won't solve it but it seems like there could be a "happy medium" between the current classing system and the deep end where a points-based system for mods comes into play. I don't know that either one of those things helps at all.

Honestly, I feel like if you want to build the GR86 into a competitive car then the real target might be STU since the index is almost the same and the tire size limit is much bigger. Of course I don't know if you can actually do that or not. I haven't read the rules closely enough to really understand if you can or can't do that since they seems to indicate >5.1L for NA v8 and 2.5L too 3.1L FI. It sure seems like it could outperform the STI cars in handling to make up for it's lesser power.

Street class may a dumb idea from how the rules are established and can be manipulated in on some platforms, but it also serves as gateway drug to the sport.

At any one of our local SCCA events a significant percentage of paddock is street class cars and the competition is pretty healthy in each of those classes with participants. I'm not sure we'd see many of the people do on any given weekend if they couldn't show up in their bone-stock daily driver on all season tires.

For the people who stick it out across several seasons, many start totally stock on whatever street tire they already have. After a little while a new set of wheels/tires appears and maybe a front/rear sway, but they stick it out in the street class. A few will mod themselves into ST but many do not. They aren't chasing a SOLO Nats champoinship. Simply having a good time with their cars while hanging out with friends and maybe beating them in raw or PAX times.

Personally, I'm not sure I'm willing to mod my gen 2 daily driver into a competitive STR car from a cost or livability standpoint, but I eagerly follow the conversations in this thread to help me decide. If it wasn't for the street classes I wouldn't be starting my third full season.

I guess I should clarify that was mildly tongue-in-cheek. I understand why it exists and I'd run street class pretty successfully for a bit.


Street class is not for me though. Destroying my tires and messing with bumpstops to be at the pointy end is annoying when you can go to ST and fix things better.




I have JDL UEL, an old ISR (well, pre-ISR...) overpipe, and now a CSG Touring 86 catback and I can hear my ASC over the exhaust. With the Perrin catback it was loud and droney because of the UEL.

Coilovers ride marginally stiffer than stock but better controlled. It just feels like an OEM+ car now, to be honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hEQX8ymQ2s

more STR fun!