I think some people are still hung up that the 86 didn't live up to the hype that was generated before the car's release, and they are hoping the MR2 will be everything that the 86 was not.


The problem is that there was too much hype following the car and people were expecting a 2+2 Cayman for the price of a Civic Si.

FREAKIN' THIS^^^^^^^
To the best of my knowledge not one single person was held at gunpoint and forced to buy the car as it is.


So it didn't exactly match what they HOPED to do, so what? They came bloody close and all the second guessing by the internet business and engineering experts that don't have a bloody clue how the industry works are just talking out their asses.


"Oh but it isn't what I wanted so it is no good and all those that are happy with it are fools and sheep. Boohoo, whine, sniffle".


Go buy something else or make it what you want there are loads of options.

[Saving this space for: "Wow, the new Supra turned out not to be the car I thought it should be."] :thumbsup:

Grrrr. I had a long winded response all typed up and a computer error ruined it. Here's an MT article with the 2500 lb manufacturer prediction, which was when the car was actually a working prototype, and way later than most of these statements were made.


http://www.motortrend.com/news/2013-...e-first-drive/


Cliffs are official statements said 2500 lbs and WRX motor. Price point matches vehicles that come with the kind of power that these would make with F.I. Price speculation came from the rumor mill and market comparisons. The rest came from what the actual experts decided to publish.


We can't expect online self proclaimed engineering and business "experts" to know what they are talking about. However, actual experts missing the weight mark by hundreds of pounds and taking way too long to squash the F.I. rumors that the themselves helped create, isn't something that should be blamed on ignorance. I dare say that removing the early manufacturer's statements/teasers and bringing the exact same car to market would have resulted in a lot fewer people bitching.

I still hang on to my S14 240sx, but the 86 is a fine daily driven replacement.
I can't believe that car turned 21 last year or that it took 14 years to come up with a decent replacement.

Although I bet BMW fans will be pleasantly surprised at how sporty the Z5 will be.

I fail to see a single "official statement" about weight in there anyplace.


I really fail to see where you came up with the "WRX motor" thing.


"The Subaru 2.0-liter four is an all-new engine with a different block from that used in the 2012 Impreza, and features Toyota-sourced direct injection. It gets a unique FA designation within the Subaru engine family (the closely related 2012 Impreza engine is known as the FB, while the 2011 Impreza is the EJ), and though Subaru engineers were tight-lipped about the engine’s output, they didn’t disagree with our guess of about 200 hp and 170 lb-ft."

It does say,however


...I'm looking forward to them making a good car even better for gens2 .:burnrubber::burnrubber:

Yes the Motortrend writer wrote that. They also wrote many many other things that were not accurate. They continue to write such things that people then take to be official statements.

A Target of 2,500 pounds does not mean "it will be" 2,500 pounds.

lol and there are hundreds of articles with 'sources from Subaru say blah blah blah STI blah blah blah'

Like Tcoat said, either it's in the press release or sitting on a showroom floor with a for sale sign on it, until then publications are just fishing for ad revenue. Hell they probably made a whole 2-3 cents off it being linked here today, almost 6 years after it was written.

How's that for return on investment.

No point in being butthurt about it now, my car on the scales last week was under 2,705 lbs and I haven't spent a dime on weight reduction.

:burnrubber:

And good luck with the Gen2, I'm certainly not waiting around, every iteration Toyota's cars get heavier and more complicated, even the refresh added a few lbs and more gizmos that do nothing terribly useful. No thanks.

Spare tire removal, back seat delete, and almost no gas in the tank?

1/2 tank and no junk in the trunk is all it takes.

Didn't even bother to take the carpets out. Roughly speaking 5 gallons of gas is ~30 lbs, spare tire and jack is near enough to 20. Car fully laden is 2,75x in my experience. I suppose that is with a set of coilovers, might have saved a few lbs there now that I think about it, but I'd be surprised if it was more than a single digit.

For a '13 FR-S MT with no options of course. Add in heated seats, leather, touchscreen, climate control, etc. seem to add a few lbs here and there. Subaru publishes a few lbs heavier for a BRZ and the '17 86 seems to have picked up a few more (about 15 lbs now that I look at it).

It's nit-picking, they only picked up a few lbs, but they definitely did. Enough to change the numbers.

Except it doesn't say target anywhere. It says manufacturer estimate, which it turns out was grossly off. You guys aren't getting me on a technicality on this one. Since a Subaru/Toyota rep gave motortrend that estimate, it is not unreasonable to expect it to get published or for someone to believe it. It would be quite unreasonable to expect them not to publish it actually. You don't need an official statement to recognize that they were way off in their estimate so late into development.

As far as the engine goes, this was a later article where they had a running demo car. Years before, they were publishing "upcoming WRX motor" or similar. Again, from tidbits the manufacturer was feeding them. I said before I don't have time or care enough to hunt all of these old articles down so I found and posted one. Or maybe I didn't say that because it got lost in the post my computer ate.

And since when does estimate mean "this is what the production car will weigh"