Dyno and LOTS of Data Analysis!
 

I think you guys will enjoy the comparisons and data analysis in this latest video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-eDAz424I0

Wow 215 whp. Lots of comparisons here, cool video.

It's a very strong performer. This is also on our Mustang dyno which is a heartbreaker and routinely reads 14% below a dynojet.

Very good info, thanks for the test.

Crazy impressive that this car still did 35-40 hp/tq over a TUNED gen 1 with bolt ons. I am so damn excited to get mine. I was super skeptical at first, but more and more dynos show just how much better this new engine is. Hyped.

Very good results!
@Strat_FRS what was you run in procedure?

Excellent, this removes any doubts I had prior. That’s a very impressive result.

Welp, I think I know what my next car will be...Was thinking about going all-out for an M2 or nice C7, but I'd never push those cars to their limit, which is wasted potential, and I'd feel terrible racking up the amount of miles I tend to drive. GR86/BRZ is perfect for a daily and as a fun car, plus it's affordable. The performance is pretty exciting! I think Subaru underrated this engine.

the tldr;

fist gen with tune, header, catback, pump gas: 177 whp and 134 ft/lbs
2nd gen bone stock : 214 whp and 175 ft/lbs

Results on a mustang dyno

I'm so happy with these results. Look forward to N/A 250whp once my warranty runs out.

After about 150km started driving it hard. The mileage at this test was 600km. These engines are fairly well broken in from the factory and you don't want to baby it too much.



The car has a lot of potential. For a driver's car it is a sweet spot where you can explore the performance everyday and enjoy it. If you like to modify and tweak and learn and grow with the car this also offers a lot of opportunities just like the Gen1 did. They improved a lot of things about the car without adding downsides. And keep in mind quite a bit of the chassis and feel also carries over from the Gen1.

Hmm, what's the purpose of the 1000 miles break in which is in the manual then? I'm just curious.

Makes me think they underrated advertised power this time around vs the first gen being more overrated unless you ran optimal fuel.

To mitigate the potential of people that will drive like fucking idiots, pedal to the floor non stop. There's a middle ground to respect, you can rev out the engine but just have to be reasonable.

Likely, to prevent people from breaking things while they're still getting their supply chain together to support the platform. (I.E. having stock of parts to do repairs)

Like letting it warm up first [emoji6]

For shits and giggles what does a stock speed 3 put down on this dyno? Wondering how this compares to my old cars.

The potentially higher flow intake manifold looks promising.

Any idea if the AF runs in full time closed loop?

What octane was the car on? Think there was potentially some knock/timing retard?

How does the OEM header look? Any large kinks and/or potential for better flow headers?

Do we know if Ecutek is currently working on unlocking the ecu?

Yes, removing the cat =D

He said in the video the 22 is running less timing than he expected and a decent bit less than the 1st gen.

Also, I EcuTek isn’t working yet for the new car.

It's possible there's a little bit of knock. Hard to know without seeing the knock sensor data.

Would like to know if this was on 91 or 93.

It's hard to find a stock speed3 these days but a stock STI will be in the 225-235whp range

I am going to do more testing on the manifolds on the car. More to come there.



The car is on our 93 ... however we have some of the worst fuel in North America. That being said I don't think the car was knocking and being NA is less prone to it. the Gen1 tuned can run more timing than the Gen2 on the stock tune on the same fuel so it's promising.



EcuTek is working on it as we speak.


The long term fuel trims were active all the way to redline but the short term were not.

Man, turboing a gen 1 is a very hard argument to make in light of how much power gen 2 makes, then if it also picks up 15-25whp with a tune and better fuel???

OOF.

What header was on the car?

And what tune? OTS? Custom? etc.

Apologies if it mentions that, I don't have time to watch that right now. I'm in a small break from like 7 hours of meetings today.

Mmh well no. The turbo Gen1 dyno in that video is having concerning issues if it is indeed running 12lbs of boost and making under 240whp and under 200ft/tq. LOL We have plenty of data for FI FA20s at this point with that result being an outlier.

I don't buy that this dyno reads 14% lower than a Dynojet either. Mustang dynos read whatever the operator wants..That tuned Gen1 would be making over 200whp on pump gas if that was the case and the Gen2 245whp which doesn't happen on Dynojets... It reads like a Mustang dyno calibrated to deliver result similar to a Dynojet with SAE correction factor.

Another strong showing for the Gen2 regardless. Its the NA engine the car needed along.

Short term being inactive means it’s in open loop during WOT, correct?

If that’s the case, it doesn’t look like you can add a bit of e85 to boost the octane without affecting AFR too much.

While the turbo does look weak, a reasonably tuned SC/Turbo gen 1 is ~260-280whp. If the gen2 can hit 230-240whp with minor mods for me it makes a FI gen 1 a hard argument to make when you also look at the worse reliability profile.

The dyno does not read what the operator wants. There is no way to skew the result or scale it using the holeshot software we use. The only thing you can do is skew the load loss calibration by running it in gear for adding to the drivetrain drag. However this was not the case. Both cars were run on the same day using the same prep process without any scaling.



Yes the turbo FRS was done in the summer with warmer temperature and yes it wasn't the strongest performer especially given our fuel quality. IF SAE correction was applied you would see a bigger gap but I left the numbers uncorrected on all vehicles. What you are seeing there is how knock resistance can really come into play when you have a high compression motor and add boost to it without having enough octane. Higher octane would have made a significant difference in that case.

@Strat_FRS, would you have a baseline run from a non-tuned 1st gen on the same dyno you could post for comparison? Or post a link to a before/after on the FRS mods/tune?

Ok, I understand you were speaking for your particular scenario now. For myself, a owning a SC'd paid off Gen1, hoping back into dept for the same car with less power that has to be modded again would be a poor choice. BUT of course our situations are different! If I had a nearly stock Gen1 and only a could years into payments I could easily see making the leap. Well I'd move up class to Zupra or M2 but you see what I mean.lol

Found a Mustang dyno graph for a stock 2013 BRZ on Perrin's site that gives 164 whp and 142 torques. http://https://www.perrin.com/blog/p...z-dyno-testing
So compared to the 214/175 found for the gen 2, the latter shows a 30% gain in peak wheel hp and a 23% gain in max torque. Not on the same dyno of course, and the refreshed twins did get 5 more hp.

What was the correction factor? None, STD, SAE? They aren't comparable at all..

Use of a correction factor won't make a huge percentage difference here with such a large gen 1 to gen 2 gap, but I fully agree stock gen 1 data from the same dyno run in the same conditions, uncorrected, would be the best comparison by far, which is why I asked the OP to post that if available.

Don't want to comment about the dyno numbers, but air-fuel ratio in new engine looks to be optimal and exactly the same with what some 1st gen tuned cars are running. Not the rich air-fuel ratio they had with the factory tune. Of course, engine temperatures will be another story. Sometimes I have a feeling that the 2.0lt engine was held a bit back and had a conservative tune, because of reliability concerns raised by Toyota. This time looks to be more confident or it will be easier to stick the finger to Subaru in case of future issues (<- your engine! ).

We are doing some more testing here and will showcase more gen1/gen2 parts and differences. This will shed more light on the situation.


The only correction you can do using the Holeshot software is SAE. STD is a often used on the dynojet as it reads 3-4% higher than SAE.

https://youtu.be/2TjlpLVTQ0I

I would have thought the catless Borla would be worth something at the top end vs the stock catted dp, even though the runners are a tiny bit smaller. Maybe the AFRs are super out of whack at the top end?

Keep em coming Strat_FRS!!!!

I'd be very interested to see whether using FA24 headers nets any interesting gains on an FA20.

In places like here where aftermarket parts can cause issues with your insurance, having a completely stock looking header would definitely help.

Without a tune, just the headers alone pretty much got rid of the torque dip completely. I can't wait to see what some 2022 model optimized headers with a tune will do. Come on ecutek! Those are the exact same Borla headers I had on my 2013, and they were great at the time but within a few years after that there were much better performing headers out there.

It didn't sound too loud either, @Strat_FRS is it possible for you to get some sound clips with headers and stock exhaust? Thanks for the work you've already done. :) I subbed to your channel, and I'm dropping likes on your vids.

That's the setup I will probably have (headers+stock headerback) because I don't want it to be crazy loud this time, but do want the mid range gains from a good set of headers.

You read my mind. This is next on the list so stay tuned. We will optimize the gen2 stock and gen1 stock headers via tuning on the gen1 car and since we've already done this for the Borlas you will see exactly how they stack up.



Thanks for the sub. You get a bit more growl with the headers but cold start sounds tinny due to cat warmup procedure. The sound is not too great - I think something like a Perrin catback and turning off the sound enhancer will be the sweet spot here.