With the EPA cracking down on ECU tuning as a whole, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

It's using a standalone ECU. They wanted to use a gen1 ECU but it was easier to go standalone atm. Maybe later but I doubt it since it's a track only car.

Any mention, anywhere, if the main bearing oiling issue is fixed with the new engine?

Awww the days of Pawnage Tool for the original iPhones and iPods. I used to do it at school and charged $10 haha

Eh, 299,8Nm at 4582rpm from a 2,4 liter?
We're in race engines territory, I highly doubt that's accurate...

Still, out of curiosity today I asked a local Subaru dealer in Italy if I could order the OEM shortblock for the 2022 BRZ which is NOT sold here (thank you EU), and surprise surprise, I can order one for a little less than 2500€ VAT included :confused0068:

I've tried emailing EMS Tuning to no avail, who knows if they used the FA24 upper oil pan and what else is needed... Still, I'm tempted.

Was waiting to get more info on this tread before I decided to pull the trigger on doing a short block but looks like this is going to need more time. Quick question for anyone who would know, would there be any benefit to using a fa24 timing cover/oil pump on the fa20? I figured at the very least it wouldn’t hurt but maybe there’s fitment issues? I kinda doubt it, seems like the parts are similar enough. Hoping the new part improves some of the infamous oiling issues.

It seems the only FA20/24 hybrid functioning atm is the EMS Tuning one, which didn't disclose much detail. Like nothing of it. Zero, except for a dyno pull which is fishy for a 2,4l running on 98 RON gasoline.

For the timing cover if you plan to use the stock first gen ECU you need to verify if the cam angle sensors are in the same place at least.

Lets revive this project people! @Opie have you asked if they can sell you a shortblock now? or let someone with a 2022 GRZ order one for you with their VIN?

I think the major question is the still the machining of the head cylinder volume to get it back to the right compression

Not 100% certain, but I think the valve reliefs on the tops of the pistons may not be in the right place for the FA20 heads either, from looking at the pics...

Although I know machining the combustion chamber in the cylinder heads is the best way to ensure the proper compression ratio, I have looked into a alternatives that MIGHT work.

So on the old ej20/25 fourms there were obviously different ways people went about doing it. Some people machined the heads, some used different pistons (probably what EMS tuning did), others said “fuck it” and just slapped the heads on the 25 block and probably had to run super conservative tunes. One thing I thought was an interesting idea was using a thicker head gasket. Grimmspeed currently sells a 1.45mm thick head gasket, which is over twice the thickness of the oem head gasket. My question is if someone were to reach out to grimmspeed about making a fa24 head gasket in that thickness, would it be enough to make the fa20/24 build viable without machining the combustion chamber?

Depending how the head work goes by op this way or way not be worth looking into further.

That is a really good point, I don’t think it is. That actually reminds me of a list I made awhile ago comparing part numbers for parts used on the fa24 and seeing similar to the fa20. In that list it actually states the camshaft position sensors are different from 17+. I think I’ll go ahead and order the correct timing cover to not cause issues on my part.

Here is the list I made;

Fa24 vs fa20 part differences

Different parts
Cylinder head (housing)
Camshafts
Valves
Valve spring
Head gasket
Pistons, rings and pin (obviously)
Con rods and bolts
Crankshaft, bolts, and trust washer
Water pump
Timing cover
Oil pan (upper and lower)
Oil pick up tube
Crankshaft pulley and bolt
Engine bearings
Accessory drive belt idle pulley (on crankshaft)
Crankshaft position sensor
Ac compressor
Alternator
Pcv valve and hose
Valve covers
Flywheel

Same parts
Valve guides
Head bolts
Camshaft followers
Rocker arms (14+)
Valve spring retainer and keeper
Valve stem seal
Valve shim
Vvt solenoid
Camshaft position sensor (17+)
Thermostat
Cam gear sprockets and plates
Timing chain, tensioner and guides
Accessory drive belt idle pulley (independent)

Something to consider is that just because the part number is different doesn’t mean the part is actually different and won’t fit. Changes in part numbers can be caused by small revision changes, change in manufacture, material. PN coding has a lot to do with QC. Honda does this to me all the time.

That’s a good point. I was looking more into the timing cover and I think that’s exactly what’s going on. Hopefully they improved the oil pump but otherwise everything else looks the same.

Saw this on FB a while ago.


https://www.facebook.com/Goldentreer...2770626180789/

Yes, that's the EMS Tuning project mentioned above...

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/pict...ictureid=12825


The FA24 timing cover looks like a winner, Subaru probably made some other improvements inside.

Does this pic show that you resealed your FA20 2017+ timing cover with a FA24 timing cover?

Nah, just snapped a pic of a 2nd gen at the shop that was in for an oil change.


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/pict...ictureid=12826


The oil pickup tube looks improved as well, made from some kind of composite material. Grabbed this pic from a Japanese website...aftermarket baffle plate.

Wow that is a completely different design. Strange how it has that small opening and then it gets bigger (maybe there is a filter in there) and then seems to neck back in.

I don't like it. It's probably just fine but there's a reason breakaway tabs are skinniest where they're supposed to break.

Bumping this. Not sure if anyone else saw this but it was on FB group. Shop in Thailand was able to do a fa20 heads w/ fa24 shortblock. ~260 whp w/ ecutek on racerom on e75
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...97121510449973

Reminds me of the k series Frankenstein builds but damn that’s cool. If the new short block can solve the fa20 oil issues on track this would be a serious contender. One down side is it’s got to be pretty expensive with a boxer, two of everything with head work.

Oddly enough, that very question led me here and ended up wanting to do the K swap.

Ugh, I hate posts like that. Why can't they tell us what they did, even if it is vague. Someone asked what they did to make the heads work and the response was "the bolt pattern is the same." So no CC machining required :iono: I doubt that.

Dyno either reads really high or there is a pretty decent bump in compression from would have to be the FA20 head combustion chambers being smaller than the FA24? Has anyone compared the two heads volume wise yet? The power rolls over at similar RPM as the full FA24.

Anyone know if the BRZ FA24 US is different from JDM FA24?

They posted their stock / stock w/ tune dyno in there, for a bit more context. This appears to be plotting whp but the corrections look different.

https://i.imgur.com/dFiYUWF.png

Not that I am aware of. Should be able to estimate it pretty closely being we know engine capacity and compression ratio. Being both engines are 12.5:1 they would have to be larger chambers on the FA24.

Not putting much stock in the dyno numbers, and I sure wish there were a bit more detail on what was involved in adapting the FA24 short block to everything else, but good to know that someone has made it work!

This is still my preferred long-term route forward, I think. Now to wait until there are some short blocks available for non-stratospheric prices...LOL.

Yeah, I agree. That dyno reminds me of the OTL header dyno. Just take the stock curve and bump it up a bit, nobody will notice :bonk:

Pardon my ignorance, but If you're going to the trouble of doing this why not just drop in a FA24 long block and all the other bits and bobs out of a wrecked 2nd Gen?

one of the main issues is going to be sensor compatibility.

as an example; 2013-2015 used one version of cam sensor wheel. 2016+ used an updated version that senses the opposite way. '13-15 was a 'tit' on a wheel the computer saw as momentarily 'on', and was otherwise 'off'. the '16+ cam sensor wheel was a divot-- the computer read 'on' all the time and read 'off' in specific points. meaning that even a 2016+ cam is not compatible with a 2014 computer.

going straight fa24 is the same as doing a honda k-motor swap in terms of wiring/programming.

many of the major sensors are in the cams/heads. by maintaining the fa20 heads and sensor suite, the motor becomes more plug-n-play with the oem ecu. it just takes a tune to adjust to get the full power out of it.

Price. You can buy a new shortblock for like 2200 if they will sell it to you. Wreaked 2nd gens are still pretty expensive, I think the last full FA24 out of a wrecked car I saw was like 6500. So if you can slap some sensors, heads, come up with a different reluctor wheel(pre facelift car) it has the potential to be cheaper then buying a complete engine for the DIY'r.

We just don't know yet though what it will cost since every one of these assholes that has done it won't tell you what they did to make it work :mad0259:

Thank for the reply. Isn't there going to be issues with tuning with FA24 short block with FA20 heads? Will the stock ECU be compatible?

there would always be issues, but it's less of a concern because the ecu is already cracked and can be tweaked to however the new design needs it to operate.

Thanks again. Good to know.

Tuning wise, I don't see an issue. They will need to rechamber the FA20 heads to work with the FA24. Guys do it for the EJ20 heads to go on the EJ25 block.

http://www.larryspower.com/heads/Chambering.html


The guys in thailand claim to have done it with the stock ECU in their 17'. Who knows what they did though, probably just stuck the 17' sensors in the FA24 block is all. They are using the FA20 heads but not sure which timing cover. I know one reason we can't run the FA20DIT timing cover and get that sweet, sweet larger oil pump, is that the cam sensor port isn't in the right spot. Not sure on timing cover compatibility FA24 vs. FA20 though.

Just like everyone else, I'm anxious to see these results, how it's being done and at what cost. I'm going to blow my motor eventually and this would be a fantastic option to have.

I am pretty much in the same position. I have 100K+ miles on my engine, 40ish track days with more to come. It's only a matter of time. When I go to refresh curious what options will be when that time comes.

I only have 60km on mine but around 35 track days. It is only a matter of time. I'd prefer to have an engine ready to drop in but haven't had any luck finding low mileage used ones. I so wish they dropped this engine in a half dozen other models :sigh: