Dyno Numbers
 

Just came across this video.

https://youtu.be/5H-gzIIGdiI

Looks like 218HP on a DynoPack.

Holy torque dip! That's not what I was expecting...

Edit: I just realized that the scale of the y axis is exaggerating it a lot, but still more dip than I had hoped.

Damn!!! I was just about to post this

Yeah it looks like it all happens in a 1200RPM band. If my conversions are right it drops almost 40ft/lbs between 3300-4300RPM, then back up another 30ft/lbs by the time it gets to 4700. Hopefully we see some more graphs soon.

Sorry brother!!

216 bhp? Seems like optimistic, or maybe a different calibration for Japan?

Screen shot
https://i.imgur.com/40ndY2p.jpg


I recall they mention peak torque was at 3800? Doesn't appear to be the case from this graph.

It’ll be freakin’ hilarious if every journo who’s driven these and spit back out the line that Marketing fed them about the torque dip being practically gone gets a serious reality check on their butt dynos :bellyroll:

More dyno from Japan
 

^^Very similar graph to the first one. I wonder if anyone dyno’d the GR86 yet?

Looks like forced induction is still on the menu boys!

Its low if anything. There is a 1.15 correction factor so its more like 189whp without correction.


E85 or a catless header is very much still needed with the 35ft/lb drop after the initial tq production. Yikes I really did not expect that.

How did you conclude about the correction factor?

Regarding E85/catless header, I think it will be on the menu as soon as DT/Xero/CSG and JDL/Tomei have something that are tested and robust kn the mrkt.

Edit: weird torque curve on the high rpm, probably due to escale used.

Hmm the dip is supposed to be alot more flat...wonder whats going on here?

This would also indicate to me that the dip wasnt "fixed" per se, but rather the car feels better because it makes a healthy 30lb/ft more torque than the outgoing car overall.

So the gen1 dip produces something like 120lb/ft and the gen2 dip is like 150lb/ft. And we know the gen1 car pulls pretty good with 150ish lb/ft at its peak (basically anywhere outside the dip)

Isn’t the engine supposed to reach peak torque at 3,700 rpm? If yes, why did this one peak at 3,200 rpm? Is that significant enough to question these numbers?

LOTD right there...:clap:

If you pause the video at the dyno read out they both show correction factors of 1.15.

Not sure why the surprises are here. I guess the only surprise is that the torque dip looks bigger than they advertised, but it was still there.

In general the curve looks quite similar to gen1:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88696

You can see the big difference is that the dip has been shortened by a good bit, as it starts later (at least if you don't count the initial torque spike for a very brief time, and look at the torque curve as a flat line where most of it lies throughout the revs).

I also don't think you'll really be feeling this dip like many did in the first gen. You have to remember that in the first gen, the point in the dip simply felt flat in terms of acceleration. It didn't give you that peppy feeling in that range. The gen2 curve is well above all of this range, and even at the dip, the torque is well above the highest point of gen1 torque, so there is ALWAYS going to be that peppy feeling.

I have to wonder if they might have had to reoptimize cam phasing to meet noise requirements?

Forrealz a bit disappointed if these are the real power/torque curves vs. what's been shown on the "info screen" graphic! Just a bit though. +20% displacement and same revs is still gonna give nice gains...

The surprise for me is exactly what you guess, it's WAY bigger than the dash graph or reviewers led me to think it would be. Some reviewers were dismissing it by saying it was more like a 5 lb/ft drop, when in reality it is around 27 lb/ft, or 15% of peak torque.

Yeah, I agree, but that sucks after we have been told over and over that the torque delivery is soooo much better this time.

As much as I am surprised and I can't help being a *little* disappointed, it's not a deal breaker. I saw TH race the previous gen car with the new one and it was not close, the new one is much faster. And if the reviewers are to be believed at all then the new car feels better regardless of what the graph looks like.

Also, the aftermarket will have solutions for this pretty quick would be my guess, just like that thread you linked. I hope CSG is as involved with the new car as they were with the first gen.

Yeah, something is a little interesting there, but I would be pretty certain that Toyota/Subaru aren't making up their power curve, much like the last. I think it comes down to the type of dyno, and the DynaPack will certainly read the biggest ups and downs in the torque curve compared to what we're used to seeing. My guess is the fact that this torque dip is smaller (not as broad over the rev range), is what makes it look small on a Dynojet for instance - because the curve is smoothed out, and with less time in the torque dip, the average values in the dip region will be higher, or less of a dip.

Purely my speculation, so we'll see. But what I'm basically trying to say is that the curves might still look much better on a more typical dyno like a Dynojet that we're used to seeing, and have a smaller torque dip. :iono:

EDIT: Also, it might answer the question for some of you who are wondering why the peaks are at different points than what is advertised. The DynaPack doesn't average out the values like some other dyno's, as I already mentioned, so you're seeing more accurate results in what the output is truly like. This is the case for many vehicles out there, we're just all so used to seeing smooth or nice curves, but that is never really the case. Also, I could be incorrect on this, but aren't peak values read at the engine, and not at the wheels, from the manufacturer? Hence why there may be such a difference in where the peaks lie as well?

I will say that butt dyno and driving experience is MUCH improved. Initial thought was "this feels very much, maybe even slightly better, like my first gen car with a nice EL header and tune". So remember that the major complaint on the first gen was more about how it feels to drive, and regardless of what this video of this dyno shows, seems like everyone is in agreement that the new car feels much better.

So it begins!

Very excited.

Hub numbers seem a little higher than I was expecting - I run my 2012 (MT) on those and got 150hp. But perhaps that was just the Australian correction factor hehe.

what is the possibility as load comes on the car is running lean and pulling back timing (ie maybe the car hasnt fully learned its fuel trims yet)?

Not very as there are two examples dyno videos and multiple runs. Plus oem tunes are way more likely to run rich and safe than lean.

I'm excited to see this torque dip. It tells me the car is still choked by the headers for emission reasons and that some catless headers + tune should make healthy gains just like the first gen.

Same type of dyno with same compressed graph.

You'd rather have to expend time/money/effort to get rid of "torque dip", than to just not have it in the stock setup?

I installed a catless header and got custom tune for my car this year due to arms race in my time-trialing class. After $$$$ and effort wriggling around under the car, while making it technically non-compliant with emissions regs, eliminated the torque dip. I would have *vastly* preferred just not having the dip in the first place!

Maybe they had the parking brake on

Right in that RPM range to simulate that torque dip. Such a beautiful dip it is. Some day it's going to be a legendary dip that people will appreciate when they sit in their EV and it pulls flat-even the whole way.

I dont trust that graph. I think it will look smoother on a dyno jet. I've seen some compressed charts that accentuate everything which can be great when you're selling parts.

I think it's a perfectly trustworthy graph, far more than a dyno jet will prove to be. People just hate seeing the reality of more accurate dyno's. It looks pretty identical to the first gen as I linked earlier. But a couple things to keep in mind is that the dip is not as broad in gen2 and that the overall torque is higher in gen2 - so the % loss of torque isn't as bad as it was in gen1.

I am pretty sure that's not his point. His point, I believe, is that it is evidence of the fact that a simple header change and tune (which most of us are more than willing to do given cost/value prop) will likely yield similar gains on the new car. And that is indeed good news, at least to this potential 2022+ buyer, as it means that maybe, just maybe, that car with just those simple mods will be enough for me not to yearn for FI (which is definitely somewhere I would prefer not to go).

?????

You're repeating exactly the same point: *glad* there's a torque dip because that means you can spend time and $$$$ and effort to eradicate it (while making car illegal).

How on earth is that *better* than simply not having a torque dip (or having a more minimal one) in the 1st place?

I'd way way WAY rather see torque/power curves more similar to the graphs on the info screen we've seen...

It will be really interesting to see more dynos.

Interesting that the values in this one suggest its lost 20% hp, and 11% tq through the drivetrain. (remember this is the 231hp JDM).

The tq peak is quite a bit earlier than the manufacturer suggest as well.

Are there any issues from dynoing it with 13kms (before its very initial break in)?

Also I wonder what car it is, its got a spacer where the head unit should be - was it a pre-prod or some kind of subaru stripper?

not when emissions is the goal.

my ecoboost mustang would ping on sudden low RPM application of throttle - I dont assume that to be a rich condition.

Seems like Japan gets additional infotainment choices.
The blank option, a larger touch screen that takes up all the bezel, and I think theres a double-din non-integrated unit.

You are probably correct. That ping is probably NOT related to a rich fuel mixture. What you describe may be Low Speed Pre Ignition (LSPI).

https://www.oronite.com/about/news/l...causes-of-LSPI

“Low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) is a premature combustion event, occurring prior to spark ignition in turbocharged, downsized gasoline vehicles. As the name implies, it occurs when engines operate at low speeds and high loads. It can result in extremely high cylinder-pressures and can lead to heavy knock. At a minimum, LSPI can generate an audible knocking noise noticeable to the driver. Repeated exposure to these conditions can cause engine hardware failure, including broken spark plugs and cracked pistons.”

Because your Mustang is turbocharged, it is vulnerable to LSPI if you hit the gas too hard at very low rpm. However, the twin’s engine is not turbocharged. A bad driver can still lug it, but it will not get LSPI.