Where does the track rabbit hole lead?
 

I had my first track day on Thursday, lead-follow at Mid Ohio with the Club layout. First session was dry, then it rained quite a bit. The rain stopped by the second session, but it was still a very wet track and I managed to spin out coming out of T12 (with no harm being done). By the third session the track was starting to dry out.

Interestingly enough I found the wet and damp sessions to be much more engaging. Sure, the dry session was fun in pushing the car more than on the street, but in the wet I really felt that I needed to control the car well and be extra focused.

This leads me to think that I will enjoy improving my driving skills, so some schooling and potentially coaching is the next thing I'll be looking into.

But that begs the question - where do I proceed with the track? I don't think I'll want to do any competitive driving and especially not wheel-to-wheel racing.

This leaves tracking for leisure. Does this boil down to schools, coaching and open lapping? I know Mid Ohio School offers all of that, as well as other groups (AutoInterests was recommended to me, and I know there are plenty others that also operate in Mid Ohio). There are also car clubs (like PCA, BMW CCA, etc.) but I'm not sure if they are applicable if I don't have an appropriate car.

Am I missing anything here? What are some thoughts of more experienced track rats?

The rabbit hole is deep…..
Very deep.
No turning back.

track days are a hobby within the car hobby. and it will always go just a bit deeper than where you're currently at, and will come first with acknowledging your personal situations limitations-- like for instance, needing to use the vehicle to leave the event, and on the street will have some limitations that a track-only vehicle won't have.

Time Trials

Basically open lapping with a stop watch and a ruleset and a pat on the back if you do well. SCCA and Gridlife will have events local to you that pull good numbers and good atmosphere, might be others. It'll be as serious as you make it, thousands of people are happy with hpde/open lapping groups.

You can take any car to any of those clubs as long as it meets their requirements, ie. no convertibles at the BMW clubs. I've driven my BMW with PCA clubs and am taking my FR-S to BMW clubs. Get out there and enjoy!

For sure. I don't think I'll be in a position to have a dedicated track car for quite a while, so there will always be street compromises.

Interesting, I didn't know what's the etiquette of these groups, thanks!

The hole leads to nirvana.

Drive your car stock until you think that you are better than the car. Then start the SLOW prosses of getting the car a little better at a time. You will learn more about the car and yourself in small steps.
Always use an instructor when you can. Have one drive your car to see how much your car can do, then ride with you to help you get there.

Definitely. I'm also in the (lucky?) small minority that like the FA20 as it is, so no rushing for more power. Currently I have some stiffer bushings/inserts and that's about it. I'm still on the stock Primacy as well, and the only track focused preparation I did was ATE Typ 200 and (used) Winmax W5 pads (which were total overkill, especially with the wet sessions).
I do plan for more sticky tires once the Primacies wear out, and after that some suspension mods, but that's definitely will be taken into account as part of any instruction on the track.

Get an oil cooler and maybe front camber bolts, and you're all set for a while!

Turn the nannies off on the track while you have the stock tires on. You can work on your car control at lower breakaway speeds.

You probably do not get the full experience of HPDE until you have in car instruction. I've had excellent luck getting assigned great instructors and learned things from them that I would have had difficulty figuring out on my own. I now drive in DE2 with NASA and will probably be solo next event. Aside from the driving, being at an event is like being around 300-400 of your best friends. Always someone to talk to and learn from.

Time trials, amateur racing (club) and track days (HPDE or lapping or whatever you call it). Before you get into amateur racing (wheel to wheel), you should do a lot of lapping, get some coaching and better yourself as a driver. You can, however, start time trialing right away, you will get better as you do it and you will have other people with similar cars competing with you and that will serve as a kind of measuring stick as well as some extra motivation (not that we need any most of the time).

track day -> more track days -> mods -> question if it is all worth it ->truck and trailer -> question if it is all worth it -> dedicated track car -> question if it is all worth it -> time trials -> question if it is all worth it -> wheel to wheel -> question if it is all worth it -> quit -> repeat

I didn't go that route as I didn't really enjoy the track days that I did early on (I think things are a lot more novice friendly now) and ended up getting hooked on autocross, but that's the path.

Join COMSCC and run Watkins Glen with us September 13/14! COM is a driver school and time trial club. Day 1 is driver school, you would be assigned an instructor. If you are an absolute beginner you likely won't be signed-off to run solo which is required for day 2 (practice and time trials) but you would be refunded for that if you do sign up for it.

FT86 is a great dual-purpose car. With minimal mods you can go pretty fast at the track while maintaining streetability. For sure you'll want some front camber. Offset upper strut mounts and camber bolts will help a lot for minimal $$$/effort. Suitable tires are a good idea of course. Hankook RS4s are a good choice if tire life is a big concern. Falken RT660 are probably the best reasonably priced track tires out now. Yoko A052 are the fastest/best for a handful of laps, perfect for time trials. Nankang CR-1 have phenomenal grip but quite heavy, ~0.5 sec slower. Other options out there as well. if you're on the OEM tires you might consider upgrading!

You don't need an oil cooler for casual occasional track usage, and IMO the downsides outweigh the supposed benefits. Use good 30 or 40 weight full synthetic during track season and change it every ~6 track hours, you'll be fine.

The rabbit hole goes very very far...
Just take whatever path suits you.
Some of us are crazy and eventually get full race cars and take them to a track every weekend and others just do the occasional DE day as a break from work/life/etc.
If your preference is in the latter camp, just work your way through DE's and get lots of instruction in car and maybe in a few years work your way up to giving back and instructing others. Some of the best instructors are neither wheel-to-wheel racers nor the fastest on track. :)
Take it as far as you are willing to go that makes you happy with what you're doing. It is definitely a slippery slope though! Enjoy!

I was just at Mid-Ohio with Gridlife the weekend before you. I only had only done one track day before, so I was in the beginner HPDE group. Mid-Ohio hosts tons of HPDE events throughout the year. Gridlife, AutoInterests, 10/10ths motorsports, GPS Tracktime, and usually some regional SCCA groups (Cincy SCCA had one there 8/2 this year). All have different levels you can sign up for, some to timed trials, some don't. Beginner groups always have instructors. Typically groups like PCA and BMW owners, don't discriminate on vehicles, from what I've seen.

Also check out Putnam Park, its a track near Indy. It's a bit more open and has less things to hit if you do happen to go off.

Side note: I was fortunate enough to not have any wet conditions, but Mid-Ohio is notoriously terrible when wet. They basically told us to do the opposite of the racing line everywhere.

As far as the rabbit hole, it can either swallow you whole, or you can stay at the surface, its all personal preference.

AutoX -> HPDE -> Time Trials/Time Attack -> W2W

That's the general progression I think. Most people stop at time trials since you can do that with a non caged street car.

Ohio Enthusiast in 2 years:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...5F6D32CB34789/

Maybe you'd be interested in giving Dirtfish rally school a go?

There are couple of BRZ stage rally cars competing in ARA and it sure looks like they're having a good time. Not something you can do with a street car though.

- Andrew

Depends on if you have a set of RallyX springs... ;)

:(

Soon. Soon-ish.

- Andrew

Lots of great advice so far. If you decide to get into Time Trial, I'd recommend checking out NASA's TT program. I prefer NASA's TT program vs SCCA's or Gridlife's mainly due to the rulebook (simple and flexible options for a build that can be competitive) and the contingency programs that manufacturers offer to NASA participants. Tires are expensive, so it's nice when you can win a set! The other advantage, is that Ohio is very central to many of NASA Great Lakes events. I'm about to move back to Minnesota and I'll definitely miss the proximity to tracks that I had while here in Ohio.

I'll also note, if you're just looking for open track time, NASA Great Lake's HPDE program probably isn't your best bet. However if you want to focus on driver development, car awareness, preparing for TT or even W2W, NASA GL's program is great for that.

Have fun going down the rabbit hole, be sure to remember it is a fun hobby and don't let it stress you out, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions!

Oh also...highly recommend a karting league if you're curious about wheel to wheel racing. It's super fun and builds actual skills.

http://youtu.be/1bzcOr0VZUI

- Andrew

For the OP: the best way to approach your future addiction is this:

"Know Thyself"

What blows your skirt up?
Engineering/Fab work?
Risk Adverse or Risk Taker?
Super competitive, love adrenaline?
Prefer a team atmosphere and want to share a car with friends and do LuckyDog endurance racing?

Then, once you know your mental profile, you'll want to address your resource profile:
Room for tow vehicle and trailer?
Discretionary annual spending limit? $5k, $15k, $150k?
Time budget - Weekends free? Have free time to work on the car, prep it etc.?

Once you know what fills your heart with joy combined with how much resources you have to throw at it - then pick the hobby, class and car that allows you to get absolute MOST out of your resources in a sustainable way that allows you to keep doing the thing you love for years to come.

:burnrubber:

Precisely why I encourage folks to drive on lower grip, high durability, high communication tires.


Too many folks get too consumed with the "go-faster-than-him" rather than focusing on what they want to do.

Just keep doing more track days, draw up your own goals, and achieve them!

Very much this.

That's the vision that NASA sells, and one that is, imo, outdated.

The average car enthusiast nowadays can't afford to W2W, myself included.

I wish more people *actually* did this.

So many folks get obsessed with their lap time, and just start throwing money at the car, instead of the driver.

I am not a country music fan, but Garth has a great song called "Rodeo" that is applicable to many things in life

"And a broken home and some broken bones
Is all he'll have to show
For all the years that he spent chasin'
This dream they call rodeo"

Yeah, if you chase it hard enough you will end up with some scars. Some visible. Some not. I had a decently built up 2005 STi that I tracked pretty frequently in my early to mid 20s. I also had an 08 STi and 12 GT-R that I tracked. Unless you are completely financially independent or getting paid to drive for a living this hobby doesn't lead anywhere good and you really need to impose your own constraints on it. At some point you will realize you are "chasing the sun" and literally trading your life and your financial future to LARP as a "race car driver".


Edit: And before somebody comes in and says "you can have fun without wrecking your life" I will just say that I agree it is possible, but frequently does not happen that way. If you do it long enough you will know guys that total a car that they still have payments on. Or roll a car and nearly die. Or wreck their car, get divorced, go bankrupt and never are heard from again. I'm not saying that this shit 100% happens to everybody, but it is pretty common if you stick around the scene for a while. You don't want to be one of these guys pulling your wadded up car out to the main road so you can call your insurance company and tell them some story about how you "swerved to miss a deer". Everybody thinks they will know when to call it quits, but when you have 50k or more into a 25k car and the engine pops it will be VERY hard to stop yourself from continuing down that road. After all, you're already in this deep, what's another 5 or 10k to get back up and running?

I won't reply directly to everyone, but thanks to all the replies!

Great round up of groups, thanks!

Exactly what they told us and how the leads drove. You still go through the dry line, so the on-off-on nature of the traction is very engaging (in a good way, at least for me).

Oh yes, very much true. I think my differentiator for this is that I am very much not a competitive person. The time trials suggested by a few here might be interesting, but I don't think I'll like class restrictions at all, and if I run in an unlimited class I will be far from competitive.

Overall I don't have neither the time nor the money to invest heavily into this, and the car would remain a street DD.

I think taking some schooling/instruction is definitely the recommended next step anyway, and that's the direction I will be going.

Something that I never really thought about, but how about drifting? Again, probably not competitive, but at least some training. How does that work?

Drift Indy has events at Kilkare in Xenia. I'm not sure how exactly it works, but I think they have regular drift days, and competitions. No Star Bash is coming up Sept 17-19 I think. That'll be a fun event to go watch.

Oh yeah enthusiasts can stop anywhere in that spectrum. I think most stop at time trials or HPDE.

While you are not wrong, I dont think thats the vision to have. Some people use their money and time traveling, some people use their money and time partying up, some people like to save to retire early, some people use their money and time trying to acquire more money. But, one thing you cannot buy with money is time. Your time here is limited, what you do with it, is very important. So while "it makes sense" to save and try to be financially stable or independent at an early age, remember you cannot buy the time back, and the longer you wait to start a hobby, the harder it becomes to do so. Learning becomes harder the older we get. This is just a hobby like many others, a very expensive one, but just that. If you want to get into it, do so while you can. Learning to drive a car around a circuit at 50-60 years old is not the same thing by a mile to doing it while you are 20. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

Have you checked out GLTC? It's Gridlife's W2W series. While competing for the weekend podium does take some time and money, there are tons of people that are able to race on a budget. Contrary to the "spec" type series, its a simple power/weight ratio field. The last race was Mid-Ohio, and there was an S2000, K-swapped EG hatch, 8th gen civic, Porsche Cayman, and C4 Corvette all battling for the lead of the races throughout the weekend. It's a riot to watch.

We are all "trading our life" for something. I'm not self employed nor have I won the lottery - so for most of us working jobs, we are "trading our lives" to make someone who doesn't need more money wealthier. Trading my life to play with my race car, even if I'm "LARP'ing" is a vastly more rewarding and fulfilling trade. I have several other hobbies too, many I could stop doing without missing them too much, but racing isn't one of them.

I would rather trade my life pursuing and enjoying something I couldn't imagine living without than trading it for something I could.

I think the "chasing the sun" folks are the people who don't stop modding. Like, "Bro, why do you need 1200WHP in your Integra!!, you still live with your mom!" But the counter argument is that this irresponsible pursuit is not at all unique to motorsports or cars - it's typical human behavior and applies to whatever addiction someone has that takes them down destructive path and I think it's counter productive to suggest that motorsports or cars is inherently a driver of destructive habits.

I personally stopped instructing because people who have little to no driving skill are showing up with 400+HP cars. Not enough novices are showing up with 100-150hp cars to learn. The combination of too much power at a high entry cost with too little talent does wreck some cars.

You posit that this is common and inevitable but it is neither. It is, thankfully, uncommon and readily avoidable but I agree that still happens more than it should.

I've been W2W racing for 17 years so specific to that pursuit, most people that churn out of the sport just lose interest. It looked fun, they tried it, then they moved on.

It's expensive and they come to the realization that the cost to play in that sandbox exceeded their willingness to commit financially to that, or to so for longer than a few years - but the VAST majority that stop racing don't do so because they let it bankrupt them or ruin their marriage. It's addictive so some morons do let it ruin their life first before giving it up - but that's a small minority. The people who keep doing it are the truly passionate "I can't imagine doing anything else" type of crowd who have also learned how do it sustainably. I have heard some old guys say "My first 3 wives didn't like the race cars" - but really that's not a problem with racing - that's a problem with his choice in women. :D

There's also a V8 swapped 86.

It's not all that low if a budget though. Racing anything a relatively open rule 12.5:1 Power to weight ratio is pretty expensive both from entry to operational. If the guy with the V8 86 is on this board I'd like to compare what he spends to race in GLTC vs what I spend to race in T4. I'd be very interested to know how far apart we are (partly because I find GLTC very appealing).

Why bother racing if you're not racing to win? The cost of building, maintaining, and operating a frontrunner car is more than the average american salary.

That’s true and would be an interesting data point. The guys on the podium definitely put a lot of money in to it, but I have a co-worker who bought an ex-ITA spec Miata that he competes in. He’s usually in the back half of the field, but having a blast and only into the car for as much as a used twin.

There’s more discussion about sponsors and stuff too, but that’s a slippery slope.


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I don't think he's on here, but just based on probably needing fresh R7's for the 8-10 weekends/yr to be in the front of the pack in that series with how competitive it has gotten plus travel distance (their events are all FAR from TX, closest is 3hrs (COTA) and the next from that is 8hrs of travel) and then maintaining a heavily modified race car that breaks things easily... I wouldn't be surprised if a 30-50k budget in a year gets eaten up really fast 10k of that alone could easily be tires. Even if you sleep in a tent or in an enclosed trailer...

Spot on, in my opinion. That (and my general lack of competitiveness) is a big reason I don't think I'll find competitive racing (even TT) appealing - although it might be a blast, to actually win would require both a large investment in money and time and tuning your car to the particular race (be it class restrictions, track-specific setups, etc.).
If I'm not winning, might as well focus solely on having fun, and then a lot of the commitment and worries would go away.

Of course, a more competitive person might find it enjoyable even if they don't win or run mid or even back of the pack. More power to them. It's a very subjective decision.

TT and/or 86CUP generally has zero additional cost associated in addition to a normal track day, unlike racing. Even if you're not competitive or not intending to compete, it's a good benchmark to track your own progress.

I don't ever build my cars "to class". I just compete in whatever class my car happens to fall into.