Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Where does the track rabbit hole lead? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146502)

CSG Mike 08-18-2021 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk (Post 3457767)
Yeah I also like the "relaxed" approach of TT. But to counter a bit the point of why compete if you arent in it to win it. Simple, you like wheel to wheel action. You enjoy the thrill, whether it is for 1st place, or just to get in front of that miata in 20th place. If you enjoy battling other drivers for position, the only option is w2w, and like many have said, not everyone have the budget to win it, but most should have a budget to go have some kind of fun.

On the GLTC point, I think a "budget" series (which is supposedly what GLTC aims for), allowing Hoosiers is a very slippery slope. Just by having a new set for each race start and qualifying you have already a huge edge (we are also just bypassing how a simple weight/power ratio can be exploided by lighter cars and aerodynamics, which is dumb).

Cheap or at least affordable race series should be about control tire, heavily regulated aero and suspension and constant ballast adjustments over time to even out the different chassis (which all have different potential beyond a simple power to weight).

Getting side tracked here, but yeah, its all about having fun and yes, its all very expensive lol
You should come check out the wild west.

cjd 08-18-2021 11:31 PM
Real car, I still enjoy autocross more. Not entirely sure why. I do enjoy the (mostly) never the same twice nature of it.

I only sim race for the rest any more. I've been on track. It's fun. And I don't trust myself or the car or others and that sucks fun away. I've been in my car when it was wrecked at an autox and I think I'm still dealing with minor injury side effects, neck muscle issues and such. No way I want to do that on track. Or again. Expensive stuff.
Not everyone has the same journey. You'll find your path. Enjoy it.

Ohio Enthusiast 08-19-2021 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjd (Post 3457790)
Real car, I still enjoy autocross more. Not entirely sure why. I do enjoy the (mostly) never the same twice nature of it.

I only sim race for the rest any more. I've been on track. It's fun. And I don't trust myself or the car or others and that sucks fun away. I've been in my car when it was wrecked at an autox and I think I'm still dealing with minor injury side effects, neck muscle issues and such. No way I want to do that on track. Or again. Expensive stuff.
Not everyone has the same journey. You'll find your path. Enjoy it.
Thanks for sharing. I always appreciate different perspectives. I've been in a car accident many years ago and the neck injuries take a long time to heal, and they never quite heal completely. Take care of yourself!

Goingnowherefast 08-19-2021 12:24 PM
To add, there's skills you learn in W2W that you cannot learn in TT. Most notably is race craft - How to drive in traffic, how to drive off-line in traffic, initiating clean passing etc. Beyond that, it's just fun. There's budget series around like GLTC and Chumpcar which offer that excitement at lower cost of entries. I will say, there's nothing quite like W2W as far as adrenaline goes. The time I did Champcar was basically the best time I've ever had on track by miles.

CSG Mike 08-19-2021 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast (Post 3457924)
To add, there's skills you learn in W2W that you cannot learn in TT. Most notably is race craft - How to drive in traffic, how to drive off-line in traffic, initiating clean passing etc. Beyond that, it's just fun. There's budget series around like GLTC and Chumpcar which offer that excitement at lower cost of entries. I will say, there's nothing quite like W2W as far as adrenaline goes. The time I did Champcar was basically the best time I've ever had on track by miles.
I'd disagree. The above can all be learned in TT and/or HPDE. You just need the right TT/HPDE environment, and just as with W2W, you need like minded individuals in that group.

blsfrs 08-19-2021 01:29 PM
Hans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast (Post 3457875)
Thanks for sharing. I always appreciate different perspectives. I've been in a car accident many years ago and the neck injuries take a long time to heal, and they never quite heal completely. Take care of yourself!

I went ahead and invested in a Hans Hybrid device even though I still drive on track with 3 point restraint. I talked to a guy that got a whiplash that was so bad, it damaged an artery in his neck. I figure it's also safer when I might ride in an instructor's car that has 5/6 point restrain.

NoHaveMSG 08-19-2021 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blsfrs (Post 3457944)
I went ahead and invested in a Hans Hybrid device even though I still drive on track with 3 point restraint. I talked to a guy that got a whiplash that was so bad, it damaged an artery in his neck. I figure it's also safer when I might ride in an instructor's car that has 5/6 point restrain.
I plan on investing in one of these very soon.

CSG Mike 08-20-2021 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blsfrs (Post 3457944)
I went ahead and invested in a Hans Hybrid device even though I still drive on track with 3 point restraint. I talked to a guy that got a whiplash that was so bad, it damaged an artery in his neck. I figure it's also safer when I might ride in an instructor's car that has 5/6 point restrain.
Make sure you specifically have a Hybrid S, not a Hybrid. Only the Hybrid S is designed and certified for use with a 3 point!
@NoHaveMSG Hybrid S's run large. Unless you're wearing nomex and a suit, buy 1 size smaller than the tshirt you wear. PM me to order as well.

rice_classic 08-20-2021 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 3457626)
Why bother racing if you're not racing to win? The cost of building, maintaining, and operating a frontrunner car is more than the average american salary.
Because racing is fun, even if you don't have unlimited time, money and talent. Spec Miata is a great example - 98 cars entered for runoffs and MOST of them are budget cars ($5-10k) but the 7-5 that have any real chance of winning are probably $40-60k cars... which is insane to me.

To quote Jay Leno, "Just because I enjoy sex, doesn't mean I want to be in Porn."

CSG Mike 08-20-2021 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rice_classic (Post 3458461)
Because racing is fun, even if you don't have unlimited time, money and talent. Spec Miata is a great example - 98 cars entered for runoffs and MOST of them are budget cars ($5-10k) but the 7-5 that have any real chance of winning are probably $40-60k cars... which is insane to me.

To quote Jay Leno, "Just because I enjoy sex, doesn't mean I want to be in Porn."
Sex isn't a competition, racing is!

2020BRZtS 08-21-2021 12:05 AM
I read this header as Where does the "track rabbit" hole lead? I thought you were genuinely curious about where the mechanical rabbit track dogs chase goes after the race. :slap:

I watched too much Bugs Bunny growing up!

https://youtu.be/TP6Ae6q4njE

strat61caster 08-21-2021 02:19 AM
Every seriously competitive grassroots w2w effort will require buying several Hoosiers per year, whether it's gltc spec Miata spec racer Ford or dirt track midgets sprints and late models.

You may be able to autocross or time trial or kart at a high level (by that I mean a contender for winning a national event or points series) for <$10k/year if you're good, but to get gud quickly you probably need to spend that much money for a few years to develop (assuming you're an average Joe) or be willing to take a long time to git gud.

inb4 creative accounting; the only way to race cheap is on a sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 3458467)
Sex isn't a competition, racing is!
More fun to do it the other way round tho.
One of my mentors was always an advocate for mixing business and pleasure. He was fresh off his second divorce at the time so maybe he isn't the role model I need right now...

Edit: Also I like Hoosiers, they aren't the devil incarnate, looking forward to their 200tw Enduro compound.

blsfrs 08-21-2021 11:04 AM
Good advice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 3458443)
Make sure you specifically have a Hybrid S, not a Hybrid. Only the Hybrid S is designed and certified for use with a 3 point!
@NoHaveMSG Hybrid S's run large. Unless you're wearing nomex and a suit, buy 1 size smaller than the tshirt you wear. PM me to order as well.
Yes, I got a "small" Hybrid S and there is still 4-5" of tail on the chest strap for adjustment. I'm 6', 175 lbs and usually wear an extra large tee. I was really surprised when a small Hans was the best fit. If your situation allows, try before you buy.


Also, it took me 45-60 minutes of fiddling and practice to get just the correct angle on the helmet posts so that I could easily pop the hans off.

rice_classic 08-21-2021 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 3458467)
Sex isn't a competition, racing is!
Fair. But missed the point which was a difference of scale.

Racing at the front of a SM pack nationally vs mid-pack is both racing, both competing but at massively different scales of financial and time commitment.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's more racers willing to race knowing they won't be at the front then there are who are only willing to race IF they are at the front.

Because of this statistical reality - If there weren't MORE people willing to go racing who knowingly won't be competing to win - THERE WOULD BE NO RACING, especially at the grassroots level. Imagine the Runoffs with 80 entries or an F1 grid with 6 cars - instantly unsustainable.

There's reasons and value for competing even if you're not competing for the win - in all competitive endeavors.


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