One thing in Savagegeese's favour is that he appears willing to revise his opinion in the face of new evidence and experience. He recently reviewed a C8 convertible and had a far less critical take on it than he had on his first drive of the C8 coupe. He looks at this apparent contradiction head-on rather than ignoring it, frankly discussing the differences, and tries to find a plausible explanation as to why he found the two to drive so differently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16LK_XlqNZw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGe5Yz5V-Xs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHO5EHFQxN8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaR843im04A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbmvq0xhIjU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUoVCgD1aOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2xhOTFc2jg

Throttle House at ~10:37

"The breakaway characteristics are not quite what I remember them to be"

"I ended up in a four wheel slide almost off the track. Don't really know why or what's going on there."

Damn. Maybe that's the suspension differences we were seeing in the Japanese reviews? I am curious what they will find in the BRZ review.

i would like to hear randy pobst's opinion on the car's on-track characteristics than some of these amateur drivers.

I really think it's just the stickier stock tires. He's the only one to mention this in everything I have watched so far.

Boy they delivered!

https://youtu.be/QaR843im04A

lol carlos lago made it seem like being told not to drift (after he was caught drifting) was a big deal. wonder if that skewed his opinion about the car a little.

Gen1.5 BRZ to ND2 long term ownership analysis

https://i.ibb.co/vBgtkmv/Untitled.png
***This is not a review, simply my opinions. I purchase cars to learn more about myself. With my ND purchase I've learned I'm not a convertible person, and in my opinion a brz to miata comparison is apples to oranges. I will admittingly be more harsh on my ND than for what it deserves. A ND is a good car, its just not MY KIND of vehicle. End of public service announcement***

Ive modded both my vehicles after driving them stock to try and appease my personal interests.
'17 BRZ mods included: tomei headers, borla exhaust, OFT tune, STI front lip, TSW wheels, Eibach sport and then pro springs
'19 ND2 Club, GWR strut tower bar, Fox adjustable shocks, Spyder Grille, OFT center exist exhaust, Delrin door bushings

Questions you should ask yourself:
The question shouldn't be can you basically not have a trunk. It's actually; can the people in your life handle that you don't have a trunk?
You may be willing to make attempts using it, but excuses aplenty arise from potential passengers, especially if your Miata is sitting right next to another practical vehicle. And then at that moment I'm asking myself what's the point of owning if my passengers aren't willing to compromise like I am?

Are you actually a convertible person?
I found I rarely put the top down in the summer time. The RF cabin does too good of a job creating a pocket of air and I find I use AC even with the top down. I will get sun burnt quickly. Also the cowl shake is noticeably worse.

Do you like to take naps, rest, or sleep in your vehicle?
ND basically makes this impossible, you can put the seat forward to slightly recline the seat, but hardly enough to give yourself room enough to relax.

How aware, analytical, or observant are you? Do minor details/imperfections bother you?
Are you a person that notices panel gaps or orange peel, or cost cutting measure without someone pointing them out to you first?


Me complaining:

The nd2 has a rev happy motor. I occasionally have to remind myself that it's only a 4 cylinder. Fast revs and amazingly smooth. Too smooth.. I'll do my best to clarify, i feel that the torque is completely linear and the noise of the engine is consistent from low rpm to redline. Under acceleration id equate it to simply turning up the gain on a speaker with a slight change in tone. As a comparison, the brz has almost a dual personality with how id describe it as a beta version of vtec above 5k rpm

I know the Brz has a motor that sounds like Chewbacca getting off with a bag of marbles, and it feels like you're ringing the motor out for every ounce of it's worth, but at least it has character. It gives you an audible concert with every rev.
I can't get over how my ND sounds like my leaf blower. Deleting my sounds tube and adding exhaust didn't help. Now it's just a louder leaf blower.

The driving characteristics... this will be difficult to elaborate on as it comes down to how hard you like to push your car. The BRZ is simply more fun to hoon and and be a jackass in. Clutch dumps and kicks in a BRZ is rewarding and fun, but hardly ever scary. Its the epitome of "really slow race car". The Miata on the otherhand is more of a happy go lucky toy, and perhaps more fun before the loss of traction. You can break the real wheels lose but it car acts like it didn't want to do it. I complain about the ride below.. which makes it all the more difficult to explain how the miata has a wallow about it. While driving the miata you wont ever forget that you're in a car that's sitting on springs While the BRZ has the feeling that you're sitting between the wheels.
I hope that explanation works well, both cars are very low to the ground, and have that hunkered down effect. Just ride and handle completely different at 6/10s and the limit. Your driving style give different results.

Generally speaking, the Maita is a cheap car, and the reality is that the majority of the costs went into the chassis and suspension. That becomes more and more obvious as you spend time with it. The luxuries are skin deep and i can see why initial impressions are excellent, but over time you'll discover cost and weight cutting measures that went 15% too far. Some people may never notice these things. So be self aware and ask yourself if these "issues" i have with the platform will actually bother you.
The car has considerable flex, and the cowl shake is bad, and its 30% worse with the top down. It feels like the car suspension crashes over cracks; your mileage may vary with the roads in your area. I've determined that this is simply due to the small overall wheel diameter. The center of the hood reverberates above 80 mph, but you may not notice in a light colored vehicle. What would be the side sills are actually plastic covers. You can see the waviness in them of where they are fixed to the frame of the car every foot or so and they creak when pressed. The same can be said for the interior door cards. With just my thumb i can depress the panel near the door handle about 1" in rather easily. Its difficult to truly relax in the car as you cant really put the seats back. The arm rest on the door are purely aesthetic, and once you notice this it becomes rather hilarious to try and use them.

The seats, in the Brz you feel like you're sitting IN the seats and your being hugged by the bolsters, on the Miata it feels like you're sitting ON the bolsters if that makes sense. I initially had the thought "oh these will break in and be nice", but that never happened. I'm not a big guy, if you're rather skinny this may not be an issue.

Piano gloss black, its outside, its inside. It always looks dusty and scratched. I dont like.

Where the ND2 is better:

The shifter is short and snappy but requires less work. Satisfying. Can shift quick at high rpms.

Clutch pedal has about the same light weight of the brz, but provides more feedback and engagement is more apparent. I took the spring out on my brz. That makes it better

The gauge cluster is better.

The obvious, being able to put the hard top down at a whim is nice

Removeable/Relocating cup holders?

The knob in front of the center armrest to control infotainment is nice as you dont have to reach up to touch the infotainment to put finder prints all over it. (you get use to it)

You can turn the infotainment screen completely off and it stays off but functionally, it acts as if its on. I keep my screen off basically all the time. All cars should do this!

The steering wheel is excellent, im not sure id say its better but its good. Feels quality.

Thanks very much for taking the time to share all that. As someone who is deciding between a new twin, an ND2, (and possibly a new Z) I found your comments very helpful. I've been moving away from the Miata anyways recently and this certainly reinforces that direction.

One thing about Miatas (I’ve owned 6, 2 NA8s, 3 NB2s, 1 NC1). They are the kind of car you enjoy driving for fun, but not driving for commuting. What he said about about the ND2 is true, but way worse for the other older ones. They flex a lot, are very twitchy on the highway, no space for you or luggage, etc. In terms of daily-ability, they are just not very good.

Now, for actual driving? They are pretty awesome, I must say. They have a sort of carefree spirit that I feel is mostly unmatched for both track and canyon use. In both situations, the lightness of the cars really does make fast driving feel intuitive. That is until they step out on you lol. I have tracked one of the NA8s and currently drift my NB2, like big third gear entries doing 70. The Miatas are some of the shortest cars you can buy and when they step out, they step out quick and are unforgiving if you lift off or brake. For me, it makes me a little less willing to really push a Miata off the track. It gets a little too hairy sometime in my opinion.

I think the Z is going to be closer to a Mustang/Camaro competitor more than the Supra. This is mostly based on them reusing the same old chassis and added weight for the new engine/turbos.

The Supra is also well over 400HP IRL and the Z is just paper HP as of now.

If they somehow manage to keep the weight close to the Supra and work some magic with the chassis, it would be a winner at that price though.

I would wait on the Z, unless you are up for a new car and a Z guy. I just think it’s going to be so similar to the last one and mainly cosmetic with more power. But I am a handling guy more than a muscle straight line guy. Not to say when I see one in the flesh I won’t like it. Always liked a Z, so not raining on the parade, just realistic.

Agreed. I was trying to say that you can't put the Z in the same class of car as the 86 or a Cayman or even a Supra. All of those cars are attempting to be true sports cars at different budgets.

To me, the Z is more of a GT/Performance Car. More similar to a muscle car than a Supra or 86. The the curb weight and handling characteristics will be closer to the previous gen than what some people are assuming.

I'm also not as excited for it compared to other people after the reveal. The Supra is still going to make more power IRL than the Z with a much better chassis and the muscle cars are still going to have crazy torque. The 370z was also still lagging behind in handling compared to the alpha chassis Camaro and even the Mustang. Without working some serious magic, I still think other cars are a better option whether you prefer power or handling.