Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Tire wear opinion (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146102)

RToyo86 07-13-2021 09:19 AM
Look into pedders top mounts. They can get you over -3° with your current setup.
They're hard to get a hold of lately due to backorder but will add roughly .75° additional over just running bolts.

ZDan 07-13-2021 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petah78 (Post 3448697)
Thanks for all the suggestions. I feel like adding a bigger front sway bar and adding camber is the simpler/cheaper route to take, even if it means for a busier ride. However, it won't be easy adding front camber as i am only on bolts and i have maxed out the setting. Maybe it's time to get coilovers with camber top plates, like Fortune 500 or RaceComp T2 so you can dial in spring rates, get some adjustability and get camber plates. So much to do with so little money.... :)
If you're worried about understeer, get front *and rear* sways. In addition to taking load off the outside front, a stiffer rear sway will further limit roll, reducing camber loss

steverife 07-13-2021 11:07 AM
Since we got that out of the way, driver inputs are probably a huge factor. I know the OP mentioned adding steering angle and snapping off throttle to rotate the car. You are probably going to burn down your tires regardless of camber if you do that much at all.

Petah78 07-13-2021 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steverife (Post 3448733)
Since we got that out of the way, driver inputs are probably a huge factor. I know the OP mentioned adding steering angle and snapping off throttle to rotate the car. You are probably going to burn down your tires regardless of camber if you do that much at all.
I certainly wouldn't ruling out that I over drove the car but I should clarify the comment above. I am not turning the wheel more while the car is pushing and lifting to cause rotation. What I meant was that when the car is turning with grip with a certain steering angle and if I lift off, the car will rotate. I have also noticed that power oversteer is easier to achieve with more steering angle.

timurrrr 07-13-2021 08:51 PM
Interesting data about adding front ARB adding front grip by optimizing dynamic camber.

To folks who experienced that first hand, what camber did you have where this helped?
Does it help primarily if you have insufficient camber to begin with (e.g. -1.7º),
or does it help even if you have 3–4º of camber in the front?

What is the typical º of roll a car with say 6 kg/mm springs has with stock ARBs and 200–260 TW tires?

Yoshoobaroo 07-13-2021 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr (Post 3448904)
Interesting data about adding front ARB adding front grip by optimizing dynamic camber.

To folks who experienced that first hand, what camber did you have where this helped?
Does it help primarily if you have insufficient camber to begin with (e.g. -1.7º),
or does it help even if you have 3–4º of camber in the front?

What is the typical º of roll a car with say 6 kg/mm springs has with stock ARBs and 200–260 TW tires?

It would depend on tire grip level as well I think.

cueball89 07-13-2021 10:29 PM
1 Attachment(s)
There is some really good information on swaybars in this thread. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=879235


Attached is a suspension calculation spreadsheet that was posted on NASIOC back in the day. I don't see why it can't be adapted to the BRZ/FRS by changing some of the parameters.

timurrrr 07-13-2021 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 (Post 3448920)
There is some really good information on swaybars in this thread. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=879235
This is awesome, thank you!

steverife 07-14-2021 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr (Post 3448904)
Interesting data about adding front ARB adding front grip by optimizing dynamic camber.

To folks who experienced that first hand, what camber did you have where this helped?
Does it help primarily if you have insufficient camber to begin with (e.g. -1.7º),
or does it help even if you have 3–4º of camber in the front?

What is the typical º of roll a car with say 6 kg/mm springs has with stock ARBs and 200–260 TW tires?
It is probably more important with less camber, but if you look at the STX setup thread, you'll see that most people there are running -4 to -4.5 degrees camber and a bigger front bar.

Muskoka800 07-14-2021 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RToyo86 (Post 3448708)
Look into pedders top mounts. They can get you over -3° with your current setup.
They're hard to get a hold of lately due to backorder but will add roughly .75° additional over just running bolts.
I use Pedders top mounts along with double camber bolts on Koni Yellows and TRD springs.
My alignment guru found he could get maximum -3.5 front camber although we settled at -2.75 for my combination of 99% DD (commuting) and 1% lapping.
I’ve yet to track this set-up due to COVID closures and moving across the province recently but hope to bolt on the new A052’s and get at it soon. Perhaps Friday.

strat61caster 07-14-2021 01:15 PM
Yup, at -4 with a 6k front spring super 200tw tires and I wouldn't go back to a stock front bar, just keeps the front end planted through sweepers and makes the car mega responsive through slaloms.

Again I think they under spec the front bar because 95% of these will never ever be driven at the limit. Just because the factory sticks it on doesn't mean it's good for track/autox, car probably would've been a little better with a 21-22mm tubular or 19-20mm solid

timurrrr 07-15-2021 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steverife (Post 3448976)
It is probably more important with less camber, but if you look at the STX setup thread, you'll see that most people there are running -4 to -4.5 degrees camber and a bigger front bar.
Well, I guess past a certain amount of total roll stiffness the benefits for AutoX are not in dynamic camber but rather quicker transitions; meaning that steady state cornering / grip in "longer" corners start to suffer.

Eyeballing at photos of my car at the track, the dynamic camber at steady state cornering looks pretty decent even with stock ARBs.

steverife 07-15-2021 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr (Post 3449319)
Well, I guess past a certain amount of total roll stiffness the benefits for AutoX are not in dynamic camber but rather quicker transitions; meaning that steady state cornering / grip in "longer" corners start to suffer.

Eyeballing at photos of my car at the track, the dynamic camber at steady state cornering looks pretty decent even with stock ARBs.
I'm not sure I follow your statement.

I don't track my car, but a lot of those folks do track their cars and even do time trials with minimal to no changes to set up.

Racecomp Engineering 07-15-2021 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 (Post 3448920)
There is some really good information on swaybars in this thread. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=879235
<-- sees a thread he posted in almost 16 years ago.
closes laptop, goes for a walk.

- andrew


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