Possibly noob question from a not so noob manual driver
 

Ok, new to the forum, pls go easy. Also posting from phone so I apologize for any shorthand or typos. I just bought a white Subaru BRZ. Love the car. Even with king concerns I want to address in a minute, I am very happy but I can’t say I’m not looking for some peace of mind. I have drove exclusively manua for the last 10 years now, learned on manual and driven both manual and automatic longer, but just manual for about 10 years. I just got a brz and took a risk on pre inspected because at the test drive I really didn’t feel anything weird, and it does have a buyback but I really like the car and don’t want to give it up so I am looking for thoughts and insight... getting into second is a pain. 4k rpm minimum to up shift shift smoothly and first is jerky. Not slipping jerky, just, very touchy. For a car that I can clear 35 in first gear, I would expect a little more leeway on the acceleration. Maybe I’m just spoiled and out of practice though because I haven’t driven much in the last few years since moving to New Jersey. Once in second, my low RPM tolerance is pretty bad. Below 2800 and it makes some subtle sorta clunky noises. Sounds like an engine with rancid gunned up oil... but also no slipping. If I try to shift before 4k on a cold transmission then I struggle to get in gear and occasional I can hear the synchro but it’s not the sound I think of going bad, just sorta heavy sounding if that makes sense. The engine oil was sludge when I bought it so I think the transmission fluid just needs to be changed. Doing that tomorrow. I still want to hear your thoughts. I occasionally get a smell from the transmission on acceleration and I don’t have that with any of my other cars but I’m not feeling any slip so I think it’s just old transmission fluids but I also can’t feel much in the clutch tbh so I really can’t be positive. As much as I love the car it doesn’t give as much feedback as many other manuals. I am just hoping for some opinions and thoughts. Doing my best not to let my worries blow the sound of this out of proportion but also want to make sure I cover all the issues.

Sorry for the block. Like I said, phone.


Thank you so much and with how much I love the car, I hope to be here often, just maybe in a less depressing section. Lol

I never got the first to second shift down. it was always jerky for me.

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I have a tune, OFT.
1- 1st is jerky, yes.
2- Going to 2nd if cold is not easy under 3.5/4 k. Over 4k is so smooth.
3- Change your fluids, should be fine.

Enjoy your car.

If the engine oil was pretty gross, I recommend changing it and the filter again in 500 to 1000 miles. Something like Pennzoil Plat will give the engine a pretty good scrubbing and it's always good to get the gunk out. It never hurts to change the transmission and differential lube. You'll find a number of how-tos and recommendations on the board. I personally like Redline MT90 in the gearbox and Motul 300 (non-lsd) in thr diff.

Shifting these cars is an acquired taste. First to second can be notchy when cold, even with good lube in the box. Warmed up, my car is fine. The keys I've found are to 1) make sure I get into the habit of pulling the shifter straight back and once that is programmed into muscle memory, 2) not to overthink it. Once, my car is warmed up, the less I think about the 1-2 shift the smoother it is. When I lose myself in the driving 1-2 is no different than 3-4.

Trans mount and diff mount bracing/bushing inserts help out those shifts too, IMO. There's so much slop in the stock bushings that it makes those shifts harder.

Thank you both I appreciate it and I definitely feel a bit better. Just trying to sorta sort through what are corks with the car, me out of practice, and what actually needs to be fixed.

Thank you also. This is an amazingly thorough post. I am very grateful. Oh yeah I’ll be cycling through all fluids that affect anything mechanical a few times. Especially the transmission. Toyota trannys hate flushes, I know that’s really risky business with them, so I assume this is no exception on a brz. I am gonna do the transmission fluid today and then I’ll probably do it again in a week and I’ll do the oil again in a thousand.

You know how they say for full synthetic “change your oil every 3-10k miles?” Yeah, no, I don’t think this car has had the oil changed SINCE 3-10k miles... its at 60k.... LOL. I know I probably shouldn’t be laughing out loud about that but I entertain myself easily ��

I hate that I just googled “brz moumy” and not only did google know what I was trying to say, I completely omitted the “transmission” part and the first thing that came up was after market transmission mounts for a BRZ 😂

Looking at parts now. Do you have any recommendations for after market mounts and bushings that are any good? I saw Perrin makes some that they at least claim reduce movement during hard acceleration which on paper sounds perfect but I prefer hearing first hand what people have made work. Haven’t found anything that jumps out at me for bushings but like I said, if there is anything you use that you know has done the trick for you I’d love to know.

I have had the Whiteline rear diff mount inserts for about six months now, and love the improvement for a tiny increase in NVH. Just installed the Cusco trans mount collar this past weekend, but have yet to test drive. From reports on here, it should basically provide an increase of the same benefit as the diff inserts.

But really, I don't think there's a bad choice among the main brands (Cusco, Perrin, Whiteline, Energy Suspension, etc.).

OP if you're money shifting, don't.

The whiteline insert cleaned up the the bucking and jerky slop in first and second gear I was dealing with.
It's possible to get smooth shifts without it, but your timing needs to be on point.

Increase to NVH is minimal but it's there. You hear the input shaft in neutral with no other noise pollution. Slightest in vibrations at high revs. Most noticeable is when the drivetrain is still cold and you get up to 100kmh/60mph.

And honestly? I kinda like it. Sounds more "race car" without being annoying or obtrusive.

no money shifting happening here. I think maybe there was a misunderstanding with what I said. Totally possible since I was posting from my phone and posted a block of text the size and shape of Minnesota. But I agree. No, the issue is just going up to second. It doesnt just "fall" into gear so to speak until around 4k RPM and I just wanted to see if thats normal for other drivers too. Once the transmission is warm I can smoothly shift as low as 3.2k but just after startup (usually warm the car up for a few minutes before moving) if I shift at a lower RPM then it is heavy and clunky and if I am at 2.5k or below then I definitely hear the synchros as I go into gear, but at higher RPMs or once it's warm, all good. The fact that it is an intermittent problem that is fixable by revving higher before gear change doesn't scream damage to me but I do suspect my tranny fluid change later will (hopefully) do the trick. Ill update you all if there is an immediate improvement but I suspect it will take a few cycles.

Agreed. Big names seem to be well regarded by the community. Should be hard to go wrong with any of them

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Shifting to second is known to be sticky/crunchy when cold. New fluid can help but it's just the way the car is designed. Plus having a shifter directly connected to the transmission.

Just need to be smooth and consistent with inputs when cold and it usually shifts into gear fine.

You both are bosses. Thank you. I am gonna try to brainstorm where I can install these. Ever since I moved up to NJ from FL I really dont have a great place to work on my cars. The parking lot at my new apt is small and has textured stone and doing a simple oil change was once of the scariest experiences of my life. Car was wobbling all over the place. Minute I pulled out a torque wrench I looked at my friend and was like, whip out the super human strength and keep this thing from sweying to the side... please... lol. As soon as I find a good spot to do it ill put these on. Or I might bight the bullet and ask a local mechanic to do it for me. I don't know yet. Fear of a car falling on your face is a powerful thing. haha.

You need jack stands if you plan to get under the car. For two reasons. One so you don't die if the jack fails and two you want to use your jack to lift the transmission and slide the insert in.

The install only takes 15-30 minutes if you include removing the undertray piece and take your time. You could literally do it during an oil change waiting for oil to drain out.

loosen One Nut, jack up trans, grease insert, slide in, lower trans, retighten bolt/nut and done.

I legit did a rear brake job* in a truck stop parking lot once, for similar reasons. It was actually very convenient, even if I did get a few strange looks.



(* - A hundred years ago on my '88 Chevy Beretta GT)

My terrifying experience was with jack stands. one on each side and the jack up front. The car was still rocking side to side. I was committed at that point but I have no plans to do that again. The bumpy texture of the embossed bricks just doesnt leave much room for good 4 point contact on each of the stands.

a truck stop is actually a great idea...

Change your transmission fluid before doing anything else. I like Redline MT-90 in mine.

yup. When I cycle out again I will cycle with that. Today I am just gonna run out to my local private shop and have them throw whatever GL4 they have on deck because I am probably going to cycle out again in a couple weeks to clean it out. If the engine oil says anything about the fluids in this car, I dont trust that this transmission doesn't need to have the fluids cycled at least twice

Yes until the fluid is warm you gotta baby it into 2nd.

I use MT-90 as well. Improved feel with little increase in noise.

I'll run through my spiel again. You might regret changing fluid because of the increased noise. Consider that.

This transmission has relatively small syncro clutches. I hate leaning into the gearshift.

The spinny parts of the gearbox, which are all swimming in thick oil, are driven two ways.

1. The input shaft drives them at all times.
2. When a gear is engaged, the output shaft will also drive them. Think engine braking.

With cold, thick oil, in neutral, clutch disengaged, the gears all quickly drag to a halt. The trick in getting from first to second in the cold is to not pause in neutral. Done quickly enough, with a gentle flick, no pause, it will fall into second. This is because the shift collar is already waiting for an opportunity to mesh with the target gear before the syncro clutch has to do any work.

In neutral, with clutch disengaged, once the gears all drag to a halt, they must then be spooled up again by the output shaft via the syncro clutch. That's where the difficulty is encountered.

If I don't shift quickly enough, while still in neutral, I engage the clutch and spin up the gears with a blip of the throttle. Then while they are still spinning faster than the output shaft, in one motion I disengage the clutch and again go for engaging second gear.

This is textbook "double clutching." It also helps with downshifting in all cases, including first gear on a roll.

I appreciate your thorough post. Yeah it’s a pretty quick movement. It’s more that the moment it begins to seat into second at cold or low RPMs, it sorta clunks through and there’s a bit of resistance. Once it’s warm there’s more wiggle room and it’s a lot easier. Believe it or not, I actually have an ulterior motive for changing the fluid. Between third and 4th if I rev too high too long (not redline but we’ll say the 5.5-6.5k range) then you can begin to subtly smell the transmission a bit but I’m not slipping so I don’t suspect my flywheel. I think the fluids are probably old and dirty. Also the car wasn’t drove for 4 years which might or might not contribute but certainly not helping anything. I am hoping some fresh fluids will help eleviate some of that burning. Worst case I have clean fluids, best case I fix that issue. Previous owner certainly worked the car. The crappy stock tires prove it. Idk how they chose to drive the car. Nothing seems broken but for stock, they certainly out it through the paces.

Update... I pulled up to the mechanic and they refused to touch a “Subaru transmission” because Subaru has specially rated transmission fluids that they won’t touch... honestly I’m just about 96.5% sure I smell BS somewhere. It’s just in who’s part I’m not so sure about yet. I’m gonna look around for a mechanic that doesn’t care and just bring my own fluid and ask them to put it in. I can try mt90 then also. I would do it myself but I haven’t touched transmissions mich in my life and if I over fill then I’m not sure I would honestly know if it made anything any better.

You fill it til it poors out. If it's pooring, then it'll even itself out lol. No joke, that's how it's done. I recommend you get some fuel hose, and a funnel. Put the funnel in the engine bay and hose into the transmission. Poor until it pukes back out. Insert plug.

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Yes, right filling level of oil in our gearbox (approx 2.2lr) is "measured" by filling hole .. so worth noting to ensure that one does it with car level, not on eg. some incline floor or just one end lifted with jack, as both over- and under-filling may worsen shifting feel.

I think this is probably the most important point To speak to also. I mentioned before that we have a horribly uneven parking lot with textured stone. Not exactly ideal for getting a level fill. I could find a truckstop or something like that It I have the second issue that there is almost certainly going to be a it left behind that will not come out til I run a few cycles through it, so, I feel like I’m not exactly in optimal conditions to make any fair assessments as to whether anything I do fluid related is doing me any favors.

Given your situation, I think you are probably best off getting assistance. I'd probably avoid the shop that believes in magical Subaru lubricant elixirs. Just grab 3 qts of a good tranny lube and find someone who knows shit from shoe polish to put it in for you.

Yeah I agree. I really can’t wait to have a garage again, or at least a proper place to work on cars like I did in FL. I did not like Florida but at least I had more than 6 inches of space to do anything outside. My consolation is I rarely live in one place longer than a couple years so maybe my next place I’ll have a bit more space.

I’ll see if I can call ahead to a place tomorrow to schedule a quick appointment

Alright, update time. I dont know if I made the right decision going with motul instead of redline but I read a lot of very heated debates over which was better and worse for different reasons and I settled on the motul because the shop was able to do it today since they had enough in stock and I was impatient to wait a day or 2 for them to get more redline in (shocked with the level of business they had. I actually had to part 2 businesses over and just tell them where I parked)...

What I immediately noticed.... Holy hell thats so much better..... People complain about cold tranny feel with motul (and redline but more motul) omg... its so much better. night and day... if daytime was literally being inside a solar flare and night time was being swallowed by darkmatter. I can easily begin rolling without feeling the tranny at all as low as 1800 rpm and I am not clunking along in first anymore at 6mph, in fact, I was cruising at 3mph earlier clutch fully off and was rolling nicely just above idle rpms with not problems or weird sounds or feelings at all. Not all but a LOT of the jerkiness is gone in second. Getting into second got a little better, but mostly in terms of sound. I still feel the hard gate but I dont HEAR it anymore and I intentionally did some sloppy shifting and I cant intentionally make the gears grind on cold tranny at low RPMs without just completely going full novice mode on it. I revved in third to near redline and no more tranny smell. Thats all gone. The whole thing feels good as new. Any and all tranny feelings I AM feeling, I can now distinctly identify what I am feeling and can tell that it is supposed to be there, and the tactile feedback, or at least a lot of it, has moved from the shifter down to the pedals which makes me VERY happy.

Again, I want to try redline so I certainly will on my next change, but even the motul is making me happy. There is a LOT of debate as to whether motul 75w90 is overly corrosive on the BRZ since it is GL5. Motul documentation has been presented that says its safe but a lot of people who I cant identify their exact expertise in the area say its a no-go based on the service manual... but the service manual has also been changed to my understanding to possibly include GL5 so IDK. I am sure someone is going to absolutely roast me for the decision and give me a firm "I told you so" when winter rolls around here up north.

I see some people saying the BRZ likes to have MTF changed every 15-20k miles instead of 25-60k. Can anyone confirm this? I don't mind changing it anually, especially if I feel an improvement like this every time, haha, but I am very curious since its not exactly a one size fits all type thing.

I swapped out the clutch petal assist spring to the mtec one, which helped me feel the engagement better for the less jerky shifts. I also adjusted the clutch petal to be lower and match the height of the brake petal and changed the actuation point. Swapped in motul gear 300 for smoother shifts. Some mtec shifter return springs made it feel much snappier back to neutral and i put on a weighted shift knob on which also seems to help push the car into gear.


The difference was night and day. I can feel the actuation point and its much smoother shifts with the motul and weighted knob. From stock it felt like a 'toy clutch' if that makes any sense.


Here at the end of the month ill be putting in sti trans mounts as well as the perrin shifter bushing to tighten it up even more.


The only other thing i have seen people do is shift fork and ball when changing the clutch disk, and a swap in a clutch slave cylinder and hydraulic line (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390)

Yeah I have seen a lot of people swap the spring with mixed opinions. I have thought about it. I know some people say it makes it a bit heavier too which under normal circumstances I actually like, but given that I am in north jersey and stop and go is a B, I am trying to decide if its worth the effort to find out first hand if I like it and risk having to swap back. I hat that there is no tactile feedback in the clutch pedal, and I can very much feel the spring just vibrating away... I dont know. I want to but I think first things first I need to get new wheels on this thing. First time I have ever thrown my back end at tless than 10mph and less than 3k rpm... these stupid prius tires are trying to kill me...

2014 car and still on stock primacies? You keep buying them (they are relatively very expensive tires) even if you don't like them, or are still on now badly worn and aged initial set?
In my eyes nothing wrong with primacies, except price. They are not the grippiest but it may add fun factor for some. But their cost makes it bad choice to get another one set, once initial "free one" is worn. And i wouldn't judge them if on top of limited initial grip one throws unreasonable wear on top.

What i did to make the decision to get the mtec was that i took the spring off completly and drove around like that for a little bit. If you run a stock clutch like i do its heavier without out the spring, but not that heavy. The only time it made me feel 'worn out' without any spring was bumper to bumper traffic. The mtec to me is a happy medium. Ive never worn myself out or felt uncomftrable with the mtec on stock clutch. If i ever go to fi and a stiffer clutch disk, it might be a different story.

Bought the car used a week ago. Blame the soccer mom before me who strangely did a great job taking care of it for someone who also never took it to get serviced ��

But to the fun factor... fun for me? Sure, a bit.... fun for the bmw driver coming around the opposite side of a corner at the stop light? Nah I think they shat themselves as a car going a mere 8mph was canted at a full 25 degrees staring straight at them... �� thankfully I know how to steer if nothing else so I stayed in my lane the whole time and all is well but they didn’t seem too thrilled lol

Ok cool. I’ll give that a try then. I know I sound like the delicate flours I make fun of for complaining about clutch leg as I drive on possibly the LIGHTEST clutch I’ve ever felt but this is also my first time back in a manual since moving to NJ a year or so ago and with 5pm traffic here, I blame nobody for wanting an auto... I DO blame the auto drivers for crawling up manual drivers asses at stops and then freak the hell out as you roll back a few inches hahahahaha. Come to think of it I might roll back less with that spring because right now, when im on a hill, I can’t feel when it’s biting til I’m basically slipping and I don’t like the lack of feedback on this pedal. I am basically just gassing it til it works when im on a hill. Theres no real good technique since I cant feel what its actually doing right now.

T_Squadrito: fun factor more like occasional tire chirp here and there in roundabouts at normal speeds or when starting going a bit more aggressive .. nothing at level you see on those 7 year old hockey pucks. My rule of thumb is to not use tires more then 3 years even if they still have legal thread depth left. If i have driven not enough tires for it to left (never happens, once i started track day hobby, lol), i'd just sell them off for partial cost recoup of next new set instead of trying to wear them down :).
Stock primacies when NOT in such sad state of age and wear are not THAT bad. I still don't advise next set to be primacy HP .. they just cost too much, mostly because of that. But there are many good tires out there, you can change to, don't blame these poor elderlies for not showing good results at olympics :)