Which wheels/tires for '17 PP in DS (autocross)
 

I ran CS last year with takeoff wheels/tires from my 2004 WRX, which were the 5x100 STI +53 wheels and 225/45/17 RE-71R. The tires got me to 200 runs, but I'll surely need something new this year.

I have two options for wheels:

• STI 5x100, +53, 15.7lbs - these barely cleared the front struts and I fear with RT660 or A052 that run wide they won't. A 3mm spacer might allow clearance, but can't confirm.

• Stock performance pack wheels, +48, 20.8lbs. Heavier by 5lbs, but give an extra 5mm clearance without a spacer. Would easily fit 225's.

The difference is 5lbs per wheel in weight, or 10% of the overall mounted wheel/tire together. This might affect handling and power, but might be negligible.

Not looking to go all in and buy new wheels with a lower offset as I'm probably going to STX long term.

Tires:

• Safe: 225/45/17 RT660 - baseline and safe choice. Should get through the 20+ event calendar, $200 cheaper.

• Risky: 225/45/17 A052 - The quicker tire. May not make it through 20 events, $200 more. A guy running 0.6* camber on a GS Civic did get 150 runs last year before they literally disintegrated.

• Wildcard: 235/45/17 in either on the PP wheels only. I'm not sure these would clear with the PP +48 offset and a 3mm spacer combined. Not sure if it's worth the extra increase in diameter, reducing the effective gear ratio, but increasing top speed in 2nd.

Please help make this decision and something that would fit. Thanks in advance.

Huh, I didn't realize that bumped the PP down with the base models. I wonder if that means I can upgrade my brakes and stay in street?

My vote goes to the STI wheels with a small spacer. You'd be able to run whatever spacer you need since they are more offset than stock. At that point you'd run out of stud well before you break the rules.

As for tires, of the options you have, I'd go RT660. I'd consider the Maxxis VR-1 also. Pretty competitive, and there is an SCCA discount.

Yeah, as of this year. Kinda bummed. I was neck and neck in CS with the S2000's and Miatas last year, but now with the Civic Type R in DS, the twins are not competitive at all. Everyone in our region ran out to buy one over winter. We now have 8 people running them with highly competitive drivers. 265 wide tires and 300HP...

Thanks for the input. I'm leaning towards the RT660's for longevity sake. The STI wheels are very light for what they are, but the offset is disappointing. I'm hoping the spacer works.

I guess if it doesn't, I could just bite the bullet and mount them on the PP wheels with the spacer too. $$$ in tire mounting out the window though.

I don't know if extended studs would remove you from CS but that would help you run a little bit larger of a spacer. I know you mentioned that any spacer larger than a 3mm would bump you out of CS but the other guy mentioned since the offset is different you can run a little bit bigger spacer maybe? I'm not very SCCA rule savvy so I don't know how to interpret these rules all I know is that I'm in STX with what I have done.

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Sti bbs wheels are 17x8, stock perf pack wheels are 17x7.5 if I’m not mistaken.

You aren’t legally allowed to run a wider wheel in C or D street.

I’d vote the 225/45 660’s on stock wheels, less weight than the larger tire, probably hold up better with stock equipment camber limitations. (Also symmetric allowing you to flip them) Throw some crash bolts at it if you haven’t already.

The 2004 STi BBS wheels were 17x7.5 +53 clear Brembo calipers and are 5x100 the 2005-2007 STi BBS wheels were 17x8 and 5x114.

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I'm also not ready to go all-in with new wheels either in case I move to STX.

Has it been well documented that a 225/45R17 is the faster tire on 17x7 wheels? I'm not fully convinced since they're heavier and these 200TW tires all run wide. However, If I was to make a choice between the sizes/tires you've listed, I'd probably go with the A052 in 225/45R17. That tire is lighter than other similarly-sized tires by 1-2lbs.

I'm battling my own decision tire decisions as well but leaning towards my wildcard of 215/40R17 Maxxis VR-1s. I'm not sure if this size has been tested on the BRZ but you'll get a lighter tire and the tread width will fall somewhere between a stock 215/45R17 and 225/45R17. Plus, it's a smaller OD tire so you'll get more torque / closer gearing.

I've heard of people locally topping 2nd in 2012+ BRZs. So, I figure if there's a chance that I'll need to go into 3rd with my 2017+, I might as well do it earlier!

If your only differentiating factor is tire width. Wider is faster in autocross. Even if it feels mushy, the times will be faster. Just look at the ES Miata setups. They run way wider tires then you should on their 6" wide wheels, because it's faster.

Does the PP get you 17x7.5?

Get ARP extended studs and run 5mm spacers. OEM studs will inevitably break on you.

You can't go wrong with 225/45/17. I've run my FR-S in CS and DS and CS again since 2012. I've tried 215/45, 235/40, 235/45, 245/40 on 17x7 and they all worked fine. I have had my best results on 225/45 and 245/40. If the PP has 17x7.5, I would try the RT660 in 235/40 of the choices on your list.

I expect to continue using 225/45/17 as long as I'm running in CS. When my set of RE71R die this season, I will be trying the 225/45 Kumho V730 or Nankang CR1 if other drivers prove they're in the ballpark of the Yokohama A052. I used BFG Rival S 1.5 for the past few years with good results too, but they did not wear as well as I had hoped in DS trim. I don't love the feel of the RT660, but it is a good tire.

Yes, 7.5".

235/40 ($190) prices are actually much more than 225/45 ($137). Seems like it's an oddball size because 245/40 is $159. All RT660 pricing. Yoks don't even come in 235's. The Yoks just went up in price another $8/tire...

I drove the RT660's on a SSC setup car back to back with mine a few runs and the car and the tires had more grip than my aging tires. They felt vague it seemed, although I know most don't report that. Maybe heavy is the word, but they're only about 1lb heavier. I dunno, the feel was off.

I'm leaning more towards just sticking to 225/45. I have to face it - with 8 CTRs running in my local region, I won't be getting top times in class. Even the RT660's in 225 with be a huge upgrade from the 200 run RE's I had last year.

I'm interested in your take on the Kuhmos and Nakangs. Really haven't heard much talk about them and I'd honestly doubt they'd be in Yok territory or we'd all be hearing about it by now.

Thanks for the feedback though.

Depends on the course. Our non-SCCA group that runs in a local swimming pool parking lot you'll never top out of 2nd, so the 2017+ has a bit of a gearing advantage.

Our SCCA group as a larger lot and makes more national, free flowing courses. It seems like at one point on the course my 2017 is on the limiter. Sometimes just a touch, other times it's kind of aggravating and I feel bad for the car.

Once last year I was well into 3rd through the back slalom and through the finish. I usually don't head into 3rd if I have to get back into 2nd though.

They are both brand new for 2021, but I'm sure many people will be trying them this year. The Nankang needs more sizes to show up to be eligible, but it might be okay? I think the Kumho V730 will be really good, but we`ll see. I loved the V720, but it got a bad reputation for delaminating. I only bought the RE71R at the end of last year because Bridgestone had a killer sale.

Early reports on the Nankang CR-1 are saying that are similar (and potentially on par) with the Yok A052s.

So for better or worse I purchased a set of light weight 18x7.5 wheels for my sons 2017 PP in DS.
I now realize my 200TW for autox in 18", 25" diameter tire selection is pretty limited.
Any recs on size and tire for DS in 18s?
Besides my +1" wheel 2017 PP, this would also pertain to the BRZ tS, and the 2nd gen BRZ that runs 18"x7.5" et48 oem sizes.

Here are some choices I'm considering .

245/35/18 Conti Force. Close to OEM diameter. But wide on narrow wheel.
235/40/18 rt660. Nankang cr1. V730. These are all taller than stock, probably worse gearing
225/4018 rt660. Z3. Close to OEM diameter but narrow.

He will have limited DD use and primary autox use for these wheels and tires.
My son is learning, so no AD08.

The bright side to a taller tire on a 2017+ is that you get more headroom in 2nd gear since it effectively numerically lowers the FD. I did this on my STX '13 BRZ (255/40-17) and I feel like it hurts me but I never had a problem bouncing off the rev limiter even on bigger courses. Unfortunately it made my car slower at the big track too but that's my prison.

Number one, compound beats all (given you're not comparing a 205 to a 245). I'd reckon a 225 RT660 is going to trump a 245 ContiForce.

The two main leaders are still the RT660 and A052. The Nankang CR1 isn't too far behind, nor the V730, but no one in our big region is running these. The Conti's are too new, but are an endurance tire.

I'd go with an RT660 even if it meant a narrow "225". The Falken's run wide anyways. A 225 is virtually fits like a 235 despite the number.

With that said, being your son is learning and doing daily driver duties, I don't think putting him on the fastest tire is the best way to learn. I tell everyone who's picking up the sport to run on something like a Conti ECS.... 300-400TW, not top tier tire for a year. Get the driving down a bit, a good line, all that... then increase mechanical grip. I see too many newbies run out and order the best tires and then rely on those for a decent time, but not improve their driving for a long while.

Since this thread got bumped, I figured I should update it with my choice and how it panned out.

I ran the 224/45/17 A052's on the stock PP wheels. I did add the 3mm spacer and I had plenty of room left between the strut and sidewall. Much more than the RE-71R's in 225 on the +53 wheel.

I got 149 runs out of them exactly. They have a few more in them, but that was my run count for the year. They're below the wear bars, but the outer edges held up with -1.3 degrees camber.

On a good note, I moved up from 37th to 31st in a highly competitive region. Our 10 top were just about all winning at nationals this year.... so yeah.

The A052's worked, but I don't know if they were the best for the car in DS. My main grip was they overheated quickly. My morning runs were good, but afternoon once it heated up, I rarely improved. Many times I was sitting in the top 15 (out of about 100) going into the afternoon, but ended up falling to around 25.

I'll likely try to RT660's this year as most in my region have switched to these for prices and their ability to take more heat. Price-wise, the A052's in 225/45/17 were $800 last year and $1000 this year. RT660's are up, but now those are ~$650 ($550 last year).

I'm up in the air again with wheel choice. The PP wheels worked last year with the A052's being 21lbs. The RT660's are 24lbs, so the1 15.7lb weight of the STI wheels would be ideal. The 660's run wide, probably wider than the Yoks, so we'll see which I decide to roll the dice on. The good news is once I fit the 660's on the PP wheels with the 3mm spacer and find I have more than 5mm of clearance, that confirms they're fit with the lighter STI wheels.... for the year after.

I still think the 660's will work better for our climate and the BRZ in street class with limited camber. The Yoks worked ok, but didn't seem ideal - likely due to the lack of camber. But they made it and didn't disintegrate in <50 runs like many said they would. They would be AMAZING on an STX setup with -4 degrees of camber and 245's.

One point of note for my on my RT660's in 2021; I found that the first 7-8 events I ran didn't actually seem to "break in" my tires. While the tires seemed to perform just fine for me, they never really seemed to get "hot" to the touch at any of our local events. At the end of August I ran a track day at Mid Ohio and the first session they seemed a little slippery which really dampened my confidence for the rest of the day. However, all the sessions after that were just fine and they seemed to stick great. The first session issues could have just been that it was not super warm but I'm not really sure. I ran one more event in September and they were amazing with crazy grip everywhere. It wasn't until after Mid Ohio that I noticed any real wear at all. YMMV

This thread was a great read as I consider wheels and tires for 2022. I enjoyed RT660s last year on my GTI but this is a different situation. My emphasis is on seat time, learning, and fun so the 225/17/45s are my probable choice. I'll also likely go with the Kumho V730 since the Grass Roots Motorsports test showed them wear a little better than the RT660.

I've not had any issues with RT660 break-in but am running on concrete in Lincoln. I got about 90 runs out of the RT660s even with rotation and flipping on the wheels. But the GTI's brake vectoring heat-cycled them pretty hard. A seam was showing on one tire when i sold them, so though still safe, delamination was beginning.