Originally Posted by Wally86 (Post 3391566)

Model S is 80k for 410mi range.

EDIT: Heck, the model 3 is 47k for 360mi range.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 3391568)

Not really the same price (Model S) or twice the range (Model 3) but that's OK. Like I said, that's why it's good more options are coming out.

If Tesla was the only true option, I'd never own an EV. They just don't pass my first test, I have to like the way the car looks. It's not a Tesla specific thing, it's a design language thing. They offer nothing in my car price range I would be willing to drive.

Originally Posted by Wally86 (Post 3391571)

At this point... I think every electric car is ugly. I hope they get better looking but until batteries make some leap, we're stuck oddball skateboards housing low drag coefficient bodies.

Originally Posted by weederr33 (Post 3391344)

Not to throw in an endless debate and ethics, but does swapping to a complete line up of EVs REALLY out weight the environmental effects of pollution?

Originally Posted by why? (Post 3391496)

There are not enough materials to go around

Originally Posted by why? (Post 3391496)

There are not enough materials to go around unless we start mining asteroids and hit pay dirt on a massive one full of rare earth elements. And let's also be clear, the power grid of absolutely no country is ready for even 10% of its population to have ev's, never mind 50% or more.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 3391568)

Not really the same price (Model S) or twice the range (Model 3) but that's OK. Like I said, that's why it's good more options are coming out.

If Tesla was the only true option, I'd never own an EV. They just don't pass my first test, I have to like the way the car looks. It's not a Tesla specific thing, it's a design language thing. They offer nothing in my car price range I would be willing to drive.

Originally Posted by spike021 (Post 3391628)

Teslas are everywhere here, so I see them all the time from all angles. I'd only be willing to drive the most recent MY S because it looks somewhat sharp, but all the older versions of it, plus the X's, Y's, and 3's look so bulky/bulbous and unwieldy. Yack.

Originally Posted by Red-86 (Post 3391618)

If we dump the things into landfill at end of life, that’s true. But almost everything can be recycled and reused... if it can be made cost effective. That’s they key barrier to wider scale recycling... that and the energy it requires.

We also need a change in thinking, from mindless consumerism and ‘engineered obsolesence’ to keeping, repairing and upgrading things instead of always buying a brand new one. Manufacturers (with consumers support) themselves have driven much of this waste and depletion of materials by engineering in obsolescence into their products, giving them a deliberately shorter life because they want to sell more new ones.

When it is cheaper to throw something away and buy a new one, instead of repair or upgrade the existing one, there is an inherently bad and wasteful incentive built in. We probably need to move away from ‘buying’ to ‘leasing’ for many products with rare elements in them so that there are strong financial incentives for the manufacturer to make the product last as long as possible in order to reap the greatest financial return.

Originally Posted by Red-86 (Post 3391618)

You might want to look at Europe, where some countries, like Norway, have reached significant EV penetration. Norway passed 10% of its fleet as EVs in 2018, and in 2019 56% of newly bought vehicles were EVs. So far their power grid hasn’t collapsed.

Originally Posted by Red-86 (Post 3391618)

The obvious thing in a country like Australia is solar - every home should have it, and with sufficient panels and battery backup, most homes could be self sufficient... including charging their EV off their own power.

Even the design of EVs should factor this in... PV tech has advanced to the stage where not only could all the body panels be PV cells, but even the glass could as well. The car could literally be recharging itself as it rolls down the road, or sits parked outside.

Originally Posted by soundman98 (Post 3391706)

meh, norway is a very oddball situation. the government literally paid the population to go electric. most of it is set to expire in 2021 last i checked. there was no VAT, and very heavy discounts on parking, tolls, and ferries, and special lane access..

Originally Posted by why? (Post 3391496)

There are not enough materials to go around unless we start mining asteroids and hit pay dirt on a massive one full of rare earth elements. And let's also be clear, the power grid of absolutely no country is ready for even 10% of its population to have ev's, never mind 50% or more.

Originally Posted by Red-86 (Post 3391618)

If we dump the things into landfill at end of life, that’s true. But almost everything can be recycled and reused... if it can be made cost effective. That’s they key barrier to wider scale recycling... that and the energy it requires.

We also need a change in thinking, from mindless consumerism and ‘engineered obsolesence’ to keeping, repairing and upgrading things instead of always buying a brand new one. Manufacturers (with consumers support) themselves have driven much of this waste and depletion of materials by engineering in obsolescence into their products, giving them a deliberately shorter life because they want to sell more new ones.

When it is cheaper to throw something away and buy a new one, instead of repair or upgrade the existing one, there is an inherently bad and wasteful incentive built in. We probably need to move away from ‘buying’ to ‘leasing’ for many products with rare elements in them so that there are strong financial incentives for the manufacturer to make the product last as long as possible in order to reap the greatest financial return.



You might want to look at Europe, where some countries, like Norway, have reached significant EV penetration. Norway passed 10% of its fleet as EVs in 2018, and in 2019 56% of newly bought vehicles were EVs. So far their power grid hasn’t collapsed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug...cles_in_Norway

But sure, for most countries significant changes to infrastructure are required. Ideally we need everyone generating power locally with support from base load power as a backup, instead of relying on centralised base load generation only.

The obvious thing in a country like Australia is solar - every home should have it, and with sufficient panels and battery backup, most homes could be self sufficient... including charging their EV off their own power.

Even the design of EVs should factor this in... PV tech has advanced to the stage where not only could all the body panels be PV cells, but even the glass could as well. The car could literally be recharging itself as it rolls down the road, or sits parked outside.

Yes, it would be expensive, so govts would have to step up and heavily subsidise it until economies of scale made it cost effective. But much is possible if we leverage both science and govt to support it.

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw (Post 3391805)

1st: no, cars are not being tossed earlier. Average vehicle life has increase on the past years, and this trend will continue with improved materials and design. BEV vehicles probably will help on that also.