Second Gen Swap? FA24
 

Hello all,

So the second gen was officially unveiled this morning. The first thing I thought of was engine swap.. I dont want to buy a new gen 86. There is just no need. However.. I have a full bolt on, e85 NA build. So just a tad over 200whp. Imagine the same on the FA24 which is estimated 228 crank hp ~191hp at the wheels. So.. how likely, how possible would it be for a FA24 swap. Will there be a need for a MOTEC? What are yall's thoughts on it?

Well... Maybe. A guy got a Honda K motor to run on the BRZ brain so it's certainly not impossible. It's unlikely to be 100%drop in but someone will make it work. They always do

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I'm mostly excited/curious about the possibility of a hybrid swap like the EJ guys would do back in the day (2.5 block on 2.0 heads)

This is actually more likely to work because less stuff needs to work with the stock components

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I think it would all depend on sensors used. If both engines have the same sensors it should be close to a direct swap. Especially if you can swap sensors over. We'll have to wait almost a year to see, really.

Considering 17+ engines are a PITA to swap into older cars I don't see it being simple to swap a FA24 into older cars.
It might get easier via kits if it has enough interest.

They also stated the engine is mounted lower. So, is that just new mounts or is there more to it? It might have physical issues as well as electrical / wiring ones.

At this point... WTF KNOWS!?!?!

Exactly. Fuel lines and stuff like that can be adapted easily. Sensors are the problem. There could be internal changes too. For instance on the LS engines, the wheel the crank sensor reads got changed at some point. You can just swap sensors physically but iirc you have to use a gm computer intended for that crank trigger, or a standalone that can be programmed for it. We will see soon I expect

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While the gearhead in me says that swap would be sweet and probably not very complex. The practical side is questioning if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Unless it drops right in with minimal cost ,you're most likely best off with a forced induction system. I know it's not exactly the same but the LS swap was... Expensive.

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Long as I can drop the 2.4 into my '13 FR-S.
Once I get the valve springs changed and gum spit into the oil passages I don't have much hope for the original engine.

FA24 might have the same problems

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I could definitely see the 2.4L displacement being very responsive to boost. Yea the more I dig into the LS swap, the less I want it - but the cool factor is thru the roof.

Heck i'd be willing to switch out everything, that new interior looks awesome. Engine, wiring harness, ecu, steering wheel etc all into the old car. I highly doubt it would be "worth it," but it might be fun.

It's very very expensive. Like, if you're not dead set on the twins, you should just go buy a Corvette. It'll handle better, ride better, higher quality, pretty much everything is better. Except it's not as cool

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The FA20DIT is not even close to a direct swap. I couldn't imagine this will be any better. The timing cover didn't even fit off the DIT to our motor so we could use the bigger oil pump.

If people can squeeze 2Jz and LS engines in there anything can be done. Will it be drop in and plug and play? Not a hope. Could it be done? Certainly.
Probably be a matter of diminishing returns on cost though.
If you are going to pay the cost of buying an engine (could be years before they are cheap), converting all the mounts, lines, etc that have already been mentioned, getting a bus and ecu that works and all the other goodies needed just to gain 50HP or so you may as well have gone to one of the already exiting and established swaps and really upped the ante. Or just go balls out on the existing engine.

Have you seen the compression ratio yet? The response to boost may very well be BOOM!

No kidding, it looks like bolt-ons and E85 are once again the safest bet. For the price it'll likely cost to swap a FA24 in, one could probably swap in a K24 via the K-Industries K24 swap currently be developmented. Speculation on either side ATM of course.

And honestly, I don't see it needing anymore. It will already be peppy from the get-go. The hopes for tuners will be how much they can get out of it, even on 91/93 octane with say a header and tune. Considering the displacement change and the power gain, I'm sure there's a decent bit left over to play with. I don't like throwing guessing numbers around, but I'm sure people will see 250 at the crank after a good setup before E85 ever comes into play. That should be PLENTY of power for many, and probably at a small expense as it is now.

One of the videos I was watching on the 2nd gen, the guy was talking about how the turbo accent made 500whp on e85 mods on a stock block so this should respond well too :bonk: I shut it off at that point.

Until somebody can recommend a video where it isn't some annoying flatbrimmed d1ck that makes a living by doing semi reviews, somebody that obviously has no clue what they are talking about but has 200,000,000 viewers anyway, some whinny arm waving hyperactive parrot or a combination of all of those I will refrain from watching any reviews.
I learn nothing from most and just get annoyed at the stupidity of many.

My point is... if a swap is doable for $5000-$7000 (including crate engine) its worth it. You wont have to worry about blowing your high mileage FA20 on boost and in addition to the boost costs.

Like someone mentioned its a cost analysis. I'm banking on no stand alone ECU. That's the most expensive part in any engine swap.

IMHO, its not even worth it to shove $20-25k for a 2JZ/LS. Engine swaps are expensive and I hate it but I love it.

We don’t know enough. What oil pump is in it? Are we going to have to worry about oil pressure again? Cost is not worth it if it has the same issues, the power difference is not that substantial enough to justify having the same problems.


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Why would you swap in an OEM block if you're worried about blowing an OEM block? You can get a built engine designed for boost for 4k and have no sensor/wiring/anything headaches..

I'm most interested in suspension/transmission/diff info. I'd love if this had a stronger transmission (theoretically it should, but who knows)

Very true. I can’t imagine it being any more than 12.5:1. Personally I’d take the fa24 out of the new Ascent - 260hp/277tq

Its 13.5:1..

I give up, there is no reason to do this swap.

Seriously? And they only added 25hp with a 20% increase in displacement?

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Current and future emissions/mpg regs. The ND2 miata is only getting 185hp from 2.0l and 13.0:1 comp.

I guess it is pretty close to 100hp per liter so yeah I shouldn't have expected more. At least e85 will be crazy on it

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yep. It is one of the specs on the actual Subaru press release.

FIFY. Next to swapping any other engine in this car, this is cake.

20% peak horsepower you mean.

Yes compared to doing other engines it is easy. It is still not a drop in plug and play by any stretch though.
So if the "minor" differences between a 2016 and 2017 engine swap are not plug and play then trying to swap one from an even greater changed platform is going to be even more difficult. People will think because the car has the same badge it should just drop in and away they go. This will not happen.

Looking back at when the 86 was released, everybody thought the WRX FA20DIT would be to go-to performance swap for our cars. Seven years later, and -AFAIK- nobody's got it to work properly.

These FA24s might very well be the same story. Can it be done? Of course. Does it make any sense vs. a low-boost supercharger kit that's known to work? Probably not.

That's also a byproduct of running DI. You can crank up the compression ratio (and thus efficiency) without concern for knock, even if you're not looking for maxxxx hp.

Would make no much sense, would be better selling the car and starting with an uodated platform (including chassis).

I would say that the FA24 from accent would make more sense.

All low end torque designed for low revs and a CVT tranny. For all intents and purposes a truck engine designed for heavy vehicles. The paper HP and torque numbers look nice but in a sports car application that version of the engine would suck balls.

lol @ truck engine. I'd still like to see it.

Me with low end tq::burnrubber:

All torque you say? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

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